<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Hi Kirk,</span><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I thought you were asking for this in your comments, where you said:</div><div class=""><font color="#0433ff" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#0433ff" class="">"What if the PAG?s conclusion is ?do not adopt this ballot / guideline because of IP issues?? Under the language above, could the proposer and endorser say ?We don?t care what the PAG thinks, we are going to call for a revote of our ballot as written??<br class=""><br class="">You list an alternative course of action in subsection (l)(ii) ?*** if the PAG recommends approval despite the Exclusion Notices, and if the proposer and endorsers decide to proceed ***.? That seems pretty clear, but that only addresses the case where the PAG recommends approval. Can we clarify what happens procedurally if the PAG recommends some outcome other than ?approval??<br class=""><br class="">Maybe delete the last sentence of (l)(i), and then amend the first sentence of (l)(ii) to read as follows (to address all possible cases after the PAG provides its conclusion):<br class=""><br class="">(ii) after the PAG has provided its conclusion, if the PAG recommends approval despite the Exclusion Notices, and if the proposer and endorsers decide to proceed, then: *** [all the same procedures you listed].<br class=""><br class="">I think this would not result in an endless cycle of Review Periods and PAGs ? for example, if the PAG conclusion says ?don?t adopt this ballot because of IP conflicts? and the proponent and endorsers decide to put the ballot up to a vote anyway (maybe with minor edits), the vote would be up-or-down ? but no new Review Period required. If the PAG says ?adopt this ballot ? it?s fine? then the same result ? proceed to a revote without another Review Period. However, if the PAG says ?adopt but only if big changes are made as follows?, then the proponent and endorsers would have to redraft a new ballot and it would go through full IP review again.”</font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As I mentioned previously, there would be no infinite loop. Per Section 7.3.2.a of the IPR policy, the PAG could disregard any Exclusion Notices it had already considered. <div class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style="font-family: Arial; orphans: auto; widows: auto;" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><span class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br class=""></span></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Best regards,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial; min-height: 17px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Virginia Fournier</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">Senior Standards Counsel</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span style="line-height: normal; font-family: 'Myriad Set Pro'; color: rgb(94, 94, 94); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(94, 94, 94);" class=""></span> Apple Inc.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class="">☏ 669-227-9595</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(71, 135, 255); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135, 255); -webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); -webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">✉︎ <a href="mailto:vmf@apple.com" class=""><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-color: rgb(71, 135, 255);" class="">vmf@apple.com</span></a></span></div></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; line-height: normal;"><div class="" style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div><div class="">On Jan 9, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Kirk Hall <<a href="mailto:Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com" class="">Kirk.Hall@entrustdatacard.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Virginia, you added a new subsection (l) (iii) as follows:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">(iii) If the PAG recommends that the Forum not proceed with the Ballot, and the proposer and endorsers decide to proceed anyway, a new Draft Guidelines Ballot must be proposed, and must go through the steps described in Sections 2.3(c) through (l) above. In addition, the new Draft Guidelines Ballot must include the PAG’s report on the Exclusion Notices for the original Ballot.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Do we face the infinite loop problem here? <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Ballot 1 – Exclusion Noticed filed – PAG formed – PAG recommends to Forum that the ballot not proceed<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Proposer/endorsers decide to proceed anyway, with no changes to the ballot. Under (l)(ii)(a), normally that would just be an up-or-down vote and no further Review Period or PAG work. However, under new (iii), the proposer/endorsers have to take Ballot 1 and resubmit it as new Ballot 2 (with no changes), and the steps of 2.3 (c) through (l) are repeated. Again, same Exclusion Notices filed – PAG formed – PAG recommends to Forum that the ballot not proceed, etc.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Proposer/endorsers decide to proceed anyway. Here we go again – Ballot 3 filed (identical), etc.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Am I misinterpreting this new language?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I think we don’t really need (iii) – I think that after a PAG has completed its work and said “don’t approve this”, if the proposer/endorsers want to have a vote anyway we should probably just hold the vote, with no further fuss. The Members will all be aware of the results of the PAG and its recommendations not to approve the ballot.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Public [<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" class="">mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Virginia Fournier via Public<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, January 9, 2017 10:44 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'<a href="mailto:management@cabforum.org" class="">management@cabforum.org</a>' (<a href="mailto:management@cabforum.org" class="">management@cabforum.org</a>) <<a href="mailto:management@cabforum.org" class="">management@cabforum.org</a>>; CA/Browser Forum Public Discussion List <<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" class="">public@cabforum.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Virginia Fournier <<a href="mailto:vfournier@apple.com" class="">vfournier@apple.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[cabfpub] Proposed Ballot 183 (Ballot process)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Kirk and all,<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Please see my responses to your comments below. I’ve also attached an updated draft with redlines to show changes from the last draft. The diagram is also included for those who may not have seen it.</div></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></body></html>