<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Probably a very complicated business as DigiNotar was declared bankrupt<div><br></div><div>There is a big difference between an insurance policy that indemnifies the insured against claims by third parties and a policy that indemnifies the losses of third parties. Once bankrupt, the insured no longer exists and does not need protection against claims.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On May 5, 2014, at 1:44 PM, Ben Wilson <<a href="mailto:ben@digicert.com">ben@digicert.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So, had Diginotar been more responsive on the breach, taking action early on, there would have been insurance coverage?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org">public-bounces@cabforum.org</a> [<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org">mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard@WoSign<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, May 04, 2014 6:37 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:kirk_hall@trendmicro.com">kirk_hall@trendmicro.com</a>; Adriano Santoni; CABFPub (<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org">public@cabforum.org</a>)<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [cabfpub] Denial of all insurance coverage for Diginotar<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Yes, when I consult my insurance broker the each type cert warranty amount, my insurance broker told me that the reparation never happen, so you can write any amount in your website since it the lost really happen it should go to the court and the insurance company will have 100 reason to deny the claim.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Why WoSign endorse this ballot is NOT for reason that WoSign can’t afford it, we think it don’t bring any benefit to end user and waste the money.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Richard<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">public-bounces@cabforum.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:kirk_hall@trendmicro.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">kirk_hall@trendmicro.com</a><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, May 5, 2014 12:49 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Adriano Santoni; CABFPub (<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">public@cabforum.org</a>)<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [cabfpub] Denial of all insurance coverage for Diginotar<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I don’t know. I do know that (in the US and Canada) all policies have “cooperation,” “duty to report incidents,” and “bad acts” clauses which are conditions to providing any coverage. If the insured (Diginotar) fails to comply with those contractual provisions, it makes things harder for the insurer to handle any claims (and remember, the first duty of the insurer is to defend the insured and try to defeat the claims, not to pay the claims… claims are only paid after litigation, etc., so the insurance is not there to help the public or injured customers).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Here, it’s my understanding that the insurer walked away, with the court’s approval, maybe because Diginotar failed to take action early on.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Adriano Santoni [</span><a href="mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, May 03, 2014 11:34 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kirk Hall (RD-US); CABFPub (</span><a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">public@cabforum.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">)<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>R: [cabfpub] Denial of all insurance coverage for Diginotar<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">This automatic translation is rather difficult to understand, to me. Who was the Insurer in this case? <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(87, 87, 87);">Inviato da Samsung Mobile.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-------- Messaggio originale --------<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Da:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:kirk_hall@trendmicro.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">kirk_hall@trendmicro.com</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Data:03/05/2014 23:02 (GMT+01:00)<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">A: "CABFPub (<a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">public@cabforum.org</a>)"<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Oggetto: [cabfpub] Denial of all insurance coverage for Diginotar<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Jeremy, in response to your question below -- it was Bob Relyea who found the link during our last CABF meeting stating (in translation) that Diginotar’s insurer denied all coverage, so there was no possibility of any recovery for claims by the public or customers. See link. That’s why it makes sense to delete the current coverage requirements.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">----- Forwarded Message -----<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">From: Bob Relyea <<a href="mailto:bob@relyea.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">bob@relyea.com</a>><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">To: Robert Relyea <<a href="mailto:rrelyea@redhat.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">rrelyea@redhat.com</a>><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Sent: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:29:26 -0500 (EST)<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Subject: Diginotar<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://webwereld.nl/beveiliging/77898-curator-diginotar-haalt-bakzeil-in-zaak-tegen-opta&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddiginotar%2Bcurator%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D775" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://webwereld.nl/beveiliging/77898-curator-diginotar-haalt-bakzeil-in-zaak-tegen-opta&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddiginotar%2Bcurator%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D775</a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-----Original Message-----<br>From: Jeremy Rowley [<a href="mailto:jeremy.rowley@digicert.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:jeremy.rowley@digicert.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:00 AM<br>To: Kirk Hall (RD-US); 'Gervase Markham';<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">public@cabforum.org</a><br>Subject: RE: [cabfpub] Ballot 121 - EVGL Insurance Requirements<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Can you please send a link to the info about DigiNotar. This is the first I've heard that the insurance company didn't have to pay anything to damaged end users and would like to investigate further. My guess is that the claims were not being brought by the right party. <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="background-color: white; padding: 0.75pt; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">TREND MICRO EMAIL NOTICE<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">and may be subject to copyright or other intellectual property protection.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to use or<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">disclose this information, and we request that you notify us by reply mail or<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">telephone and delete the original message from your mail system.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="background-color: white; padding: 0.75pt; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 0.75pt;"><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"> </span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">TREND MICRO EMAIL NOTICE<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">and may be subject to copyright or other intellectual property protection. <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to use or <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">disclose this information, and we request that you notify us by reply mail or<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">telephone and delete the original message from your mail system.<o:p></o:p></span></pre></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Public mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Public@cabforum.org">Public@cabforum.org</a><br>https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/public</div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>