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    I do not know, I will check with our legal department.<br>
    <br>
    Adriano<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 01/05/2014 17:57, Moudrick M.
      Dadashov ha scritto:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:53626EEB.2040205@ssc.lt" type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
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      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Adriano,<br>
        <br>
        do you think you could share with me the non-confidential part
        of your insurance agreement?<br>
        <br>
        Thanks,<br>
        M.D.<br>
        <br>
        On 5/1/2014 9:45 AM, Adriano Santoni - Actalis S.p.A. wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote cite="mid:5361ED72.5080402@staff.aruba.it" type="cite">
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        We are not favourable to this change, at least in the proposed
        form, for several reasons.<br>
        <br>
        First of all, the proposed amendment amounts to changing from
        "much" to (possibly) "nothing", and that's unreasonable.<br>
        <br>
        Besides, in some countries "minimum insurance requirements (if
        any) ... applicable to the CA" may not exist, and that would
        imply that for CAs incorporated or registered in those countries
        there would be no insurance requirement. That would be unfair to
        the other CAs, as well as a very bad thing for customers and
        relying parties.<br>
        <br>
        We believe that a public CA must have an appropriate insurance,
        with appropriate coverage.<br>
        <br>
        We had no particular problems meeting the current EVGL insurance
        requirements, and see no reasons why those requirements should
        be (essentially) removed as its being proposed in this Ballot.<br>
        <br>
        Adriano<br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 24/04/2014 02:16, Ben Wilson ha
          scritto:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote
          cite="mid:00a601cf5f52$7bec3b70$73c4b250$@digicert.com"
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            <p class="line867" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                  lang="EN">Ballot 121 – EVGL Insurance Requirements</span></strong><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="line-height:14.65pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                lang="EN">The EV Guidelines Working Group is considering
                updating the EV Guidelines in a number of areas.  Kirk
                Hall of Trend Micro hereby makes the following motion,
                and Moudrick Dadashov from </span><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext;border:none


                windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Skaitmeninio sertifikavimo
                centras (SSC)</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
              </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
                lang="EN">and Richard Wang from WoSign have endorsed
                it.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line862" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">This ballot
                is to amend the current EV Guidelines (EVGL) Sec. 8.4
                requirements as stated below.  </span><span
                style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN">The reasons in favor of the Ballot are stated
                after the proposed amendments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><u><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Motion


                  begins</span></u><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Amend


                EV Guideline Section 8.4 to read as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">EV


                  Guideline Section 8.4 - Insurance<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Each


                CA SHALL maintain <s>the following</s> insurance
                related to <s>their</s> <b><u>its</u></b> respective
                performance and obligations under these Guidelines <b><u>in

                    accordance with the the minimum insurance
                    requirements (if any) as are applicable to the CA
                    under the law of its jurisdiction of incorporation
                    or registration.</u></b> <s>:<o:p></o:p></s></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(A)


                  Commercial General Liability insurance (occurrence
                  form) with policy limits of at least two million US
                  dollars in coverage; and<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p><span
                      style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(B)


                  Professional Liability/Errors and Omissions insurance,
                  with policy limits of at least five million US dollars
                  in coverage, and including coverage for (i) claims for
                  damages arising out of an act, error, or omission,
                  unintentional breach of contract, or neglect in
                  issuing or maintaining EV Certificates, and (ii)
                  claims for damages arising out of infringement of the
                  proprietary rights of any third party (excluding
                  copyright, and trademark infringement), and invasion
                  of privacy and advertising injury.<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p><span
                      style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Such


                  insurance MUST be with a company rated no less than A-
                  as to Policy Holder’s Rating in the current edition of
                  Best’s Insurance Guide (or with an association of
                  companies each of the members of which are so rated).<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"
              style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p><span
                      style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">A
                  CA MAY self-insure for liabilities that arise from
                  such party's performance and obligations under these
                  Guidelines provided that it has at least five hundred
                  million US dollars in liquid assets based on audited
                  financial statements in the past twelve months, and a
                  quick ratio (ratio of liquid assets to current
                  liabilities) of not less than 1.0.<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><u><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                  lang="EN">Motion Ends <o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The


                reasons for this proposed amendment are as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The


                insurance requirements were created basically out of
                thin air during initial drafting of the EVGL, without
                any particular analysis of claims against CAs,
                usefulness of insurance, availability of appropriate
                insurance, or necessary insurance levels.  The main
                purpose of an insurance requirement in the EVGL was to
                impress the public with the responsibility of CAs who
                issue EV certificates.  However, as noted below, these
                reasons aren’t really justified by the facts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The


                types and amounts of insurance required under EVGL 8.4
                are North America-centric, and are not easily available
                in other world regions (or not available at all). 
                Insurance for damages “arising out of infringement of
                the proprietary rights of any third party” are generally
                not available in many professional liability/errors and
                omissions policies.  The requirement is arguably unfair
                to CAs outside North America.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The


                types of insurance required under EVGL 8.4 are not
                designed to provide relief or compensation to injured
                customers or the public who rely on EV certs issued by a
                CA.  Both types of insurance are intended primarily to
                protect the issuing CA, not injured claimants, and the
                insurers will try to avoid or defeat all claims from
                claimants.  The policies typically include defense costs
                within the policy limits, so an insurance policy might
                be entirely consumed by defense costs to protect the
                issuing CA, with nothing left to pay claims to
                claimants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Commercial


                General Liability insurance doesn’t really help
                customers or relying parties who claim injury from a bad
                cert – these policies are more designed to protect the
                CA from things like people falling on a slippery floor
                in the CA’s offices, etc.  Likewise, professional
                liability/E&O coverage will only pay after defending
                the CA if a judgment is likely or rendered, and the
                insurer may try to avoid coverage if the issuing CA has
                done some bad things.  For example, Diginotar’s insurer
                has denied all coverage because Diginotar hid its breach
                and failed to report the problem for several weeks,
                compounding the damages and violating its obligations to
                the insurers – so the insurance was worthless.  These
                policies also do not cover contract claims from
                customers (e.g., a claim of breach of contract by the CA
                such as failure to issue a proper cert).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Some


                have suggested that even if the current insurance
                requirements don’t actually protect the public or
                customers, they are nevertheless useful as a “show of
                seriousness” by a CA.  If that is a worthwhile
                objective, we may as well require other irrelevant
                things instead like proof of auto insurance or a minimum
                office space size – none of these qualifications are
                really relevant to whether a CA operates competently and
                in compliance with requirements.  Instead, we rely
                mostly on (1) annual performance audits, and (2) browser
                root programs (and consequences of failure) to confirm
                competence and compliance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">VeriSign’s


                previous general counsel for ten years has said VeriSign
                never faced a claim for damages from any certs during
                that time.  In most cases, bad certs are simply revoked
                and possibly reissued.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Even


                though there have been virtually no claims against
                issuing CAs, buying the minimum insurance can be
                expensive for smaller CAs.  There is typically a minimum
                premium of $25,000 or more per year with a significant
                deductible, even though the CA will likely never have a
                covered claim.  That’s a waste of money.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">In


                the Diginotar case, apparently claims were made against
                the company’s insurers (perhaps from investors for loss
                of value of the company when it was shut down).  In any
                case, Diginotar’s insurer denied all coverage for the
                claims based on Diginotar’s bad acts and breach of its
                obligations to the insurer.  There would be no possibly
                insurance coverage for customers or relying parties, so
                the insurance was of no value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Some


                countries have their own minimum insurance requirements
                for companies incorporated or registered in their
                jurisdiction, while many do not.  The CA/Browser Forum
                should defer to these decisions by the governing
                jurisdictions and require compliance with local
                standards – or just delete Section 8.4 entirely, as
                every CA must already comply with applicable laws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoListParagraph"
              style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0


              level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
                  style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                    "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Finally,


                under current EVGL Sec. 8.4, large companies like Trend
                Micro get to opt out of the insurance requirements
                because they meet the stated financial requirements. 
                This is arguably an unfair advantage for large companies
                over small ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN">The review period for this ballot shall
                commence at 2200 UTC on Wednesday, 23 April 2014, and
                will close at 2200 UTC on Wednesday, 30 April 2014.
                Unless the motion is withdrawn during the review period,
                the voting period will start immediately thereafter and
                will close at 2200 UTC on Wednesday, 7 May 2014. Votes
                must be cast by posting an on-list reply to this thread.
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line862" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN">A vote in favor of the motion must indicate a
                clear 'yes' in the response. A vote against must
                indicate a clear 'no' in the response. A vote to abstain
                must indicate a clear 'abstain' in the response. Unclear
                responses will not be counted. The latest vote received
                from any representative of a voting member before the
                close of the voting period will be counted. Voting
                members are listed here: </span><a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://cabforum.org/members/"><span
                  style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
                  lang="EN">https://cabforum.org/members/</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
                <span lang="EN"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
            <p class="line862" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
                lang="EN">In order for the motion to be adopted, two
                thirds or more of the votes cast by members in the CA
                category and greater than 50% of the votes cast by
                members in the browser category must be in favor. Also,
                at least six members must participate in the ballot,
                either by voting in favor, voting against, or
                abstaining. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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