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    We are not favourable to this change, at least in the proposed form,
    for several reasons.<br>
    <br>
    First of all, the proposed amendment amounts to changing from "much"
    to (possibly) "nothing", and that's unreasonable.<br>
    <br>
    Besides, in some countries "minimum insurance requirements (if any)
    ... applicable to the CA" may not exist, and that would imply that
    for CAs incorporated or registered in those countries there would be
    no insurance requirement. That would be unfair to the other CAs, as
    well as a very bad thing for customers and relying parties.<br>
    <br>
    We believe that a public CA must have an appropriate insurance, with
    appropriate coverage.<br>
    <br>
    We had no particular problems meeting the current EVGL insurance
    requirements, and see no reasons why those requirements should be
    (essentially) removed as its being proposed in this Ballot.<br>
    <br>
    Adriano<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 24/04/2014 02:16, Ben Wilson ha
      scritto:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:00a601cf5f52$7bec3b70$73c4b250$@digicert.com"
      type="cite">
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        <p class="line867" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><strong><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
              lang="EN">Ballot 121 – EVGL Insurance Requirements</span></strong><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="line-height:14.65pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
            lang="EN">The EV Guidelines Working Group is considering
            updating the EV Guidelines in a number of areas.  Kirk Hall
            of Trend Micro hereby makes the following motion, and
            Moudrick Dadashov from </span><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext;border:none
            windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">Skaitmeninio sertifikavimo
            centras (SSC)</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
          </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
            lang="EN">and Richard Wang from WoSign have endorsed it.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line862" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
            style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">This
            ballot is to amend the current EV Guidelines (EVGL) Sec. 8.4
            requirements as stated below.  </span><span
            style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN">The reasons in favor of the Ballot are stated
            after the proposed amendments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><u><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Motion
              begins</span></u><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Amend
            EV Guideline Section 8.4 to read as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">EV
              Guideline Section 8.4 - Insurance<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Each
            CA SHALL maintain <s>the following</s> insurance related to
            <s>their</s> <b><u>its</u></b> respective performance and
            obligations under these Guidelines <b><u>in accordance with
                the the minimum insurance requirements (if any) as are
                applicable to the CA under the law of its jurisdiction
                of incorporation or registration.</u></b> <s>:<o:p></o:p></s></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(A)
              Commercial General Liability insurance (occurrence form)
              with policy limits of at least two million US dollars in
              coverage; and<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p><span
                  style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:1.0in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(B)
              Professional Liability/Errors and Omissions insurance,
              with policy limits of at least five million US dollars in
              coverage, and including coverage for (i) claims for
              damages arising out of an act, error, or omission,
              unintentional breach of contract, or neglect in issuing or
              maintaining EV Certificates, and (ii) claims for damages
              arising out of infringement of the proprietary rights of
              any third party (excluding copyright, and trademark
              infringement), and invasion of privacy and advertising
              injury.<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p><span
                  style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Such
              insurance MUST be with a company rated no less than A- as
              to Policy Holder’s Rating in the current edition of Best’s
              Insurance Guide (or with an association of companies each
              of the members of which are so rated).<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:.5in;text-autospace:none"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p><span
                  style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><s><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">A
              CA MAY self-insure for liabilities that arise from such
              party's performance and obligations under these Guidelines
              provided that it has at least five hundred million US
              dollars in liquid assets based on audited financial
              statements in the past twelve months, and a quick ratio
              (ratio of liquid assets to current liabilities) of not
              less than 1.0.<o:p></o:p></span></s></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><u><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
              lang="EN">Motion Ends <o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
            reasons for this proposed amendment are as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
            insurance requirements were created basically out of thin
            air during initial drafting of the EVGL, without any
            particular analysis of claims against CAs, usefulness of
            insurance, availability of appropriate insurance, or
            necessary insurance levels.  The main purpose of an
            insurance requirement in the EVGL was to impress the public
            with the responsibility of CAs who issue EV certificates. 
            However, as noted below, these reasons aren’t really
            justified by the facts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
            types and amounts of insurance required under EVGL 8.4 are
            North America-centric, and are not easily available in other
            world regions (or not available at all).  Insurance for
            damages “arising out of infringement of the proprietary
            rights of any third party” are generally not available in
            many professional liability/errors and omissions policies. 
            The requirement is arguably unfair to CAs outside North
            America.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
            types of insurance required under EVGL 8.4 are not designed
            to provide relief or compensation to injured customers or
            the public who rely on EV certs issued by a CA.  Both types
            of insurance are intended primarily to protect the issuing
            CA, not injured claimants, and the insurers will try to
            avoid or defeat all claims from claimants.  The policies
            typically include defense costs within the policy limits, so
            an insurance policy might be entirely consumed by defense
            costs to protect the issuing CA, with nothing left to pay
            claims to claimants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Commercial
            General Liability insurance doesn’t really help customers or
            relying parties who claim injury from a bad cert – these
            policies are more designed to protect the CA from things
            like people falling on a slippery floor in the CA’s offices,
            etc.  Likewise, professional liability/E&O coverage will
            only pay after defending the CA if a judgment is likely or
            rendered, and the insurer may try to avoid coverage if the
            issuing CA has done some bad things.  For example,
            Diginotar’s insurer has denied all coverage because
            Diginotar hid its breach and failed to report the problem
            for several weeks, compounding the damages and violating its
            obligations to the insurers – so the insurance was
            worthless.  These policies also do not cover contract claims
            from customers (e.g., a claim of breach of contract by the
            CA such as failure to issue a proper cert).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Some
            have suggested that even if the current insurance
            requirements don’t actually protect the public or customers,
            they are nevertheless useful as a “show of seriousness” by a
            CA.  If that is a worthwhile objective, we may as well
            require other irrelevant things instead like proof of auto
            insurance or a minimum office space size – none of these
            qualifications are really relevant to whether a CA operates
            competently and in compliance with requirements.  Instead,
            we rely mostly on (1) annual performance audits, and (2)
            browser root programs (and consequences of failure) to
            confirm competence and compliance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">VeriSign’s
            previous general counsel for ten years has said VeriSign
            never faced a claim for damages from any certs during that
            time.  In most cases, bad certs are simply revoked and
            possibly reissued.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Even
            though there have been virtually no claims against issuing
            CAs, buying the minimum insurance can be expensive for
            smaller CAs.  There is typically a minimum premium of
            $25,000 or more per year with a significant deductible, even
            though the CA will likely never have a covered claim. 
            That’s a waste of money.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">In
            the Diginotar case, apparently claims were made against the
            company’s insurers (perhaps from investors for loss of value
            of the company when it was shut down).  In any case,
            Diginotar’s insurer denied all coverage for the claims based
            on Diginotar’s bad acts and breach of its obligations to the
            insurer.  There would be no possibly insurance coverage for
            customers or relying parties, so the insurance was of no
            value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Some
            countries have their own minimum insurance requirements for
            companies incorporated or registered in their jurisdiction,
            while many do not.  The CA/Browser Forum should defer to
            these decisions by the governing jurisdictions and require
            compliance with local standards – or just delete Section 8.4
            entirely, as every CA must already comply with applicable
            laws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-add-space:auto;text-indent:-.25in;line-height:normal;mso-list:l0
          level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
                "Times New Roman"">         </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Finally,
            under current EVGL Sec. 8.4, large companies like Trend
            Micro get to opt out of the insurance requirements because
            they meet the stated financial requirements.  This is
            arguably an unfair advantage for large companies over small
            ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN">The review period for this ballot shall commence
            at 2200 UTC on Wednesday, 23 April 2014, and will close at
            2200 UTC on Wednesday, 30 April 2014. Unless the motion is
            withdrawn during the review period, the voting period will
            start immediately thereafter and will close at 2200 UTC on
            Wednesday, 7 May 2014. Votes must be cast by posting an
            on-list reply to this thread. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line862" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN">A vote in favor of the motion must indicate a
            clear 'yes' in the response. A vote against must indicate a
            clear 'no' in the response. A vote to abstain must indicate
            a clear 'abstain' in the response. Unclear responses will
            not be counted. The latest vote received from any
            representative of a voting member before the close of the
            voting period will be counted. Voting members are listed
            here: </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://cabforum.org/members/"><span
              style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""
              lang="EN">https://cabforum.org/members/</span></a><span
            style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
            <span lang="EN"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
        <p class="line862" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="line874" style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"
            lang="EN">In order for the motion to be adopted, two thirds
            or more of the votes cast by members in the CA category and
            greater than 50% of the votes cast by members in the browser
            category must be in favor. Also, at least six members must
            participate in the ballot, either by voting in favor, voting
            against, or abstaining. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      </div>
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      <br>
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