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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Trend Micro would not want to participate in the Forum if one group of CAs could impose new rules on other CAs around the world (read: their competition) without participation by and approval of the browsers
who set the rules for their trusted root programs. That is almost a definition of anticompetitive behavior.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">We don’t think CAs have this power today, or should have this power. And we can’t understand the opposition to requiring the approval of a ballot by at least one browser – if a ballot can’t attract support
of even one browser, it probably shouldn’t succeed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Jeremy Rowley [mailto:jeremy.rowley@digicert.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 16, 2012 8:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kirk Hall (RD-US); richard.smith@comodo.com; 'Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)'; public@cabforum.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [cabfpub] [cabfman] Ballot [94] - Adoption of CA/Browser Forum Bylaws<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I do not agree that “most [members] assumed this was the rule already” since three members have already provided the opposite view. I also do not agree that browser input is mandatory on issues that primarily
affect CAs. I see the Forum as a body delegated the responsibility to create and amend standards and guidelines. The browsers adopt forum work product in their discretion, but the Forum remains free to amend these guidelines and create/modify requirements
through errata. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Of course, browser input is always important, which is why require a majority vote of browsers interested in the discussion. However, I do not think their vote should be essential on issues that impact only
CA processes (such as ballot 88). The browser communities lack of interest should not prevent the modification of guidelines to account for unexpected conflicts that arise between the guidelines and a CAs daily operations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Jeremy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> public-bounces@cabforum.org [mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>kirk_hall@trendmicro.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> richard.smith@comodo.com; 'Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)'; public@cabforum.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] [cabfman] Ballot [94] - Adoption of CA/Browser Forum Bylaws<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">On this point, I revert to what I have said before – I have never believed that CAs themselves (alone) could impose requirements on other CAs – their competitors – through the Forum or otherwise. That raises
serious competition and antitrust issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I have always viewed the Forum as a place where CAs and browsers together can develop recommendations for best practices via Guidelines – but they are not binding on any CA because of Forum action. The Guidelines
only become binding on CAs if one or more browsers independently choose to incorporate them as requirements for participation in their trusted root programs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">For this reason, I don’t think any recommended requirement or best practices guideline should ever be adopted by the Forum without positive input (i.e., a yes vote) from at least one browser.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org">public-bounces@cabforum.org</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org]">
[mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rich Smith<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)'; <a href="mailto:public@cabforum.org">public@cabforum.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cabfpub] [cabfman] Ballot [94] - Adoption of CA/Browser Forum Bylaws<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org">public-bounces@cabforum.org</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org]">
[mailto:public-bounces@cabforum.org]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span style="color:#1F497D">[RWS]
</span></i></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><snip></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> If a change to the guidelines doesn't provide any benefit to the relying parties (e.g. browsers) then it might be questionable if it's
really necessary or if it's just something some CAs would like to have. </span><b><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D">[RWS]
</span></i></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D"></snip><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span style="color:#1F497D">[RWS] But if it doesn't have any detrimental effect to relying parties and is beneficial to CAs and/or their customers, then I would definitely not call that unnecessary. Going
back to ballot 88 we had placed restrictions that had real consequences for a subscriber with a very legitimate use case. I don't consider the changes made by that ballot unnecessary at all. And I think the government of a widely recognized independent country
whose problem we solved would agree.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span style="color:#1F497D">-Rich</span></i></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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