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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Good here as well!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>-- <br>Jos Purvis (</span><a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#954F72'>jopurvis@cisco.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>)<br>.:|:.:|:. cisco systems | Cryptographic Services<br>PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105 | Controls and Trust Verification</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Infrastructure <infrastructure-bounces@cabforum.org> on behalf of Ben Wilson <bwilson@mozilla.com><br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 6:26 PM<br><b>To: </b>Wayne Thayer <wthayer@gmail.com><br><b>Cc: </b>"infrastructure@cabforum.org" <infrastructure@cabforum.org><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Infrastructure] Separate GitHub Repositories for Each Working Group<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Looks good to me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 10:47 AM Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@gmail.com">wthayer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Here is an updated draft announcement based on my understanding of today's discussion:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The Infrastructure Subcommittee plans to change the structure of the Forum's GitHub organization to better reflect the evolving structure of the Forum itself by moving to separate repositories for each working group. We've discussed a number of ways to accomplish this, and have concluded that the following steps represent the best approach:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>First, we'll clone the "documents" repository to "archive", preserving branches and commit history.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We'll then rename "documents" to "servercert". This repo will contain the SCWG Charter, BRs, and EVGLs. GitHub will automatically redirect links from the old name to the new name, keeping links to the current versions of the BRs, NCSSRs, and EVGLs functioning.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The "servercert" repo will be forked to create a "forum" repo that retains commit history for the Charter and other Forum level documents. Non-SCWG documents will then be deleted from "servercert", and non-Forum docs will be deleted from "forum".<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also, ALL EXISTING BRANCHES WILL BE DELETED - this means that some redline links included in old ballots will be broken. Those links can be manually modified to reference the "archive" repository. This is a tradeoff made to preserve links to the current versions of SCWG docs and to simplify this migration.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Finally, we'll create new repositories under the 'cabforum' organization as follows:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- "code-signing" - Code signing Charter, BRs, and EV code signing guidelines<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- "smime" - Charter and BRs for S/MIME certificates<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- "tools" - Future location for automation code and other Infrastructure WG files<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The few commits that need to be preserved in these repos will be manually re-created.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Each repo will have access rights specific to the working group (e.g. SCWG members won't be able to approve changes to the SMCWG repo).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The "main" branch of each repo will be configured to enforce reviews before merging a pull request.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The Infrastructure subcommittee proposes that these changes be made on November 1st if there are no objections. Please respond if you have any concerns with this proposal.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 8:42 AM Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think you're asking two separate things?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>There's the branch history (e.g. branches created by Ben and Dimitris for merging), which we were holding off just to make sure we dealt with any stable links.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But there's also the commit history (e.g. the history of each commit), which allows for line-by-line change history through every change. I absolutely use that on a regular basis, and that's one of the things I think we should preserve - to be able to git-blame through the ballot history. That's why I'm hugely appreciative that Ben actually made each ballot a commit, allowing the history to be tracked through the many ballots.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 11:31 AM Jos Purvis (jopurvis) <<a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com" target="_blank">jopurvis@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>One question that came up in our discussion was how frequently anyone refers back to the old branches or changes that are part of the git history for /documents. Obviously the more recent changes are sometimes still relevant, but I’ve yet to find anyone deep-referencing something from the 100-branch of the ballot history for the BRs. And if someone wanted to do that, the history would all still be there under /documents, unchanged, and you could even git-compare /documents/docs/BR.md (or a historical version of it) with /scwg/docs/BR.md, no?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>I guess I’m wondering how much effort to spend focusing on preserving that history in each of the document trees vs. creating each new WG tree clean and letting /documents become /archive and retain that history for reference.</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>-- <br>Jos Purvis (</span><a href="mailto:jopurvis@cisco.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#954F72'>jopurvis@cisco.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black'>)<br>.:|:.:|:. cisco systems | Cryptographic Services<br>PGP: 0xFD802FEE07D19105 | Controls and Trust Verification</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Infrastructure <<a href="mailto:infrastructure-bounces@cabforum.org" target="_blank">infrastructure-bounces@cabforum.org</a>> on behalf of Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 3:04 PM<br><b>To: </b>Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@gmail.com" target="_blank">wthayer@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:infrastructure@cabforum.org" target="_blank">infrastructure@cabforum.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:infrastructure@cabforum.org" target="_blank">infrastructure@cabforum.org</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Infrastructure] Separate GitHub Repositories for Each Working Group</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 12:37 PM Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@gmail.com" target="_blank">wthayer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We discussed this proposal on today's Infrastructure subcommittee call.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:46 AM Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@gmail.com" target="_blank">wthayer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks Ryan - this is helpful.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 9:32 AM Ryan Sleevi <<a href="mailto:sleevi@google.com" target="_blank">sleevi@google.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:16 PM Wayne Thayer <<a href="mailto:wthayer@gmail.com" target="_blank">wthayer@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>During last week's Infrastructure call, Ben, Jos, and I discussed the proposal to split <a href="https://github.com/cabforum/documents/" target="_blank">https://github.com/cabforum/documents/</a> into separate repositories for each WG's documents.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>FWIW, I tried for 10 minutes to get into the call before giving up. Can we get this worked out for the next call? Had the same problem with our prior call as well.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>No one has been able to start the meeting. Jos is working with the WebEx team to get his account fixed.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I don't believe that we need to create a ballot to proceed with this change, but I suggested that we should announce the change on the public list and give members a chance to object to it. Here is what I think we want to propose:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>================<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The Infrastructure Subcommittee plans to change the structure of the Forum's GitHub organization to better reflect the evolving structure of the Forum itself.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We'll create new repositories under the 'cabforum' organization as follows:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- "forum" - contains the Bylaws (and potentially IPR agreement and other Forum level docs)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- "servercert" - Charter, BRs, and EVGLs<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- "code-signing" - Code signing Charter, BRs, and EV code signing guidelines<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- "smime" - Charter and BRs for S/MIME certificates<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>- "tools" - automation code and other Infrastructure WG files<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>"tools" is a bit TBD right now. That's specifically a large scale of work (to work out the CI integration and templates and figuring out if we're doing cross-repo syncs). So let's just place this as "TBD". I think just focusing on the main work products sounds good.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think this means that all of the automation for producing the documents would initially be duplicated in each repo. We agreed that is a good approach because it allows us to proceed with the separate repos sooner. Then a subsequent task would be to consolidate the automation for all the repos into the 'tools' repo so that the Infrastructure subcommittee can more easily maintain it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As I wasn't able to make the call, I'm not sure what was discussed for cabforum/documents - is that being renamed to that it will automatically redirect? I think we should, and should to servercert rather than forum, but that wasn't clear.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>That makes sense.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We decided that it would be best to consider cabforum/documents a legacy repo, set it to read-only, and possibly rename it to 'archive' rather than repurposing it as either the forum level repo or the SCWG repo.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thanks, but I think I'm still concerned about this. Can folks share the rationale?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204)'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Ben is proceeding with some branch cleanup work, but in today's call we decided that keeping the cabforum/documents repo intact as an archive would allow us to create the new repos from scratch without copying over history and branches. We can proceed with this approach to creating the new repos without branch cleanup in the cabforum/documents repo.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I'm not sure this is good either, and hoping to share the rationale. I do not think breaking the version history into multiple repositories is at all consistent with our goals for moving to versioned artifacts to begin with, and I'm concerned that just like our Wiki migrations, we'll lose important change control history that remains relevant.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Is the sole goal just "do something sooner?" Or are there other reasons? <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Infrastructure mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Infrastructure@cabforum.org" target="_blank">Infrastructure@cabforum.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure" target="_blank">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></body></html>