[cabf_governance] Ballot 206 and documents

Dimitris Zacharopoulos jimmy at it.auth.gr
Tue Feb 6 12:24:58 MST 2018



On 6/2/2018 9:17 μμ, Tim Hollebeek wrote:
>
> For those of us who have historically tried hard not to understand
> European regulations, but probably should understand them better than
> we do, is one a superset of the other, and if so, in which direction? 
> If not, what does the Venn diagram look like?
>

ETSI EN 319 401 is the first level and 411 (part 1) is built on top of
401. Here is a diagram available from the document ETSI TR 119 400
(http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/119400_119499/119400/01.01.01_60/tr_119400v010101p.pdf)



I hope it is clearer now.

Dimitris.


>  
>
> -Tim
>
>  
>
> *From:*Govreform [mailto:govreform-bounces at cabforum.org] *On Behalf Of
> *Dimitris Zacharopoulos via Govreform
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 6, 2018 12:10 PM
> *To:* Dean Coclin <dean.coclin at digicert.com>; CA/Browser Forum
> Governance WG List <govreform at cabforum.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [cabf_governance] Ballot 206 and documents
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On 6/2/2018 9:02 μμ, Dean Coclin wrote:
>
>     I’m still confused. The requirements from browsers is 411-1.
>
>
> But the new Bylaws are not only for Browsers :-)
>
> The Server Certificates WG will require ETSI EN 319 411-1 BUT IT
> SHOULD ALSO require not just WebTrust for CAs but also WebTrust for
> CAs Baseline and NetSec.
>
> Dimitris.
>
>
>      
>
>     *From:*Dimitris Zacharopoulos [mailto:jimmy at it.auth.gr]
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, February 6, 2018 2:01 PM
>     *To:* Dean Coclin <dean.coclin at digicert.com>
>     <mailto:dean.coclin at digicert.com>; CA/Browser Forum Governance WG
>     List <govreform at cabforum.org> <mailto:govreform at cabforum.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [cabf_governance] Ballot 206 and documents
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     On 6/2/2018 8:15 μμ, Dean Coclin wrote:
>
>         Dimitris,
>
>         We currently list ETSI 411-1. Why should we change to 401?
>
>
>     411-1 covers Baseline Requirements and Network Security
>     Requirements, which is equal to WebTrust for CAs Baseline and NetSec.
>     401 covers similar items as WebTrust for CAs.
>
>     Dimitris.
>
>
>
>
>         Dean
>
>          
>
>         *From:*Govreform [mailto:govreform-bounces at cabforum.org] *On
>         Behalf Of *Dimitris Zacharopoulos via Govreform
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, February 6, 2018 12:16 PM
>         *To:* Virginia Fournier <vfournier at apple.com>
>         <mailto:vfournier at apple.com>
>         *Cc:* CA/Browser Forum Governance WG List
>         <govreform at cabforum.org> <mailto:govreform at cabforum.org>
>         *Subject:* Re: [cabf_governance] Ballot 206 and documents
>
>          
>
>          
>
>         On 6/2/2018 6:25 μμ, Virginia Fournier wrote:
>
>             Hi Dimitris,
>
>              
>
>             Would you please let us know what changes you’d propose to
>             resolve the issues you’ve mentioned below?  Your changes
>             weren’t left out intentionally - we probably just missed
>             your request. Thanks.
>
>
>         Certainly. I have attached a red-lined version of the proposed
>         changes on the "CABF-Bylaws-v.1.8_23-Jan-2018.doc" file, to
>         align the ETSI audit criteria with WebTrust. I also made a
>         small reference correction to the "Certificate Consumer"
>         definition.
>
>         However, I couldn't provide an easy language fix for the
>         requirement 2.1 a, and I hope the WG will be able to discuss
>         on a future call. I will try to highlight the problem and
>         propose some language to resolve the loop.
>
>         Here are the current definitions:
>
>         _(1) "Certificate Issuer_: The member organization operates a
>         certification authority that has a current and successful
>         WebTrust for CAs audit or ETSI EN 319 401 audit report
>         prepared by a properly-qualified auditor, is a member of a
>         Working Group, and that actively issues certificates to end
>         entities, such certificates being treated as valid by a
>         Certificate Consumer Member.  Applicants that are not actively
>         issuing certificates but otherwise meet membership criteria
>         may be granted Associate Member status under Bylaw Sec. 3.1
>         for a period of time to be designated by the Forum"
>
>         _(2) _"_Root Certificate Issuer_: The member organization
>         operates a certification authority that has a current and
>         successful WebTrust for CAs,or ETSI EN 319 401 audit report
>         prepared by a properly-qualified auditor, is a member of a
>         Working Group, and that issues certificates to subordinate CAs
>         that, in turn, actively issue certificates to end entities
>         such certificates being treated as valid by a Certificate
>         Consumer Member.  Applicants that are not actively issuing
>         certificates but otherwise meet membership criteria may be
>         granted Associate Member status under Bylaw Sec. 3.1 for a
>         period of time to be designated by the Forum. "
>
>         _(3) _"_Certificate Consumer_: The member organization
>         produces a software product, such as a browser, intended for
>         use by the general public for relying upon certificates and is
>         a member of a Working Group"
>
>         First of all, since 2.1 talks about "qualifying for Forum
>         Membership", which I understand to mean "Applicants", I
>         propose we replace "member organization" to "applicant
>         organization". In order to resolve the loop problem, perhaps
>         the part of the "Certificate Consumer" definition that talks
>         about software intended for use by the general public for
>         relying upon certificates, should be included in the
>         definitions of (1) and (2).
>
>         Here is a suggestion for these definitions:
>
>         _(1) "Certificate Issuer_: The applicant organization operates
>         a certification authority that has a current and successful
>         WebTrust for CAs audit or ETSI EN 319 401 audit report
>         prepared by a properly-qualified auditor, is a member of a
>         Working Group, and that actively issues certificates to end
>         entities, such certificates being treated as valid by a
>         software product, such as a browser, intended for use by the
>         general public for relying upon certificates. Applicants that
>         are not actively issuing certificates but otherwise meet
>         membership criteria may be granted Associate Member status
>         under Bylaw Sec. 3.1 for a period of time to be designated by
>         the Forum"
>
>         _(2) _"_Root Certificate Issuer_: The applicant organization
>         operates a certification authority that has a current and
>         successful WebTrust for CAs,or ETSI EN 319 401 audit report
>         prepared by a properly-qualified auditor, is a member of a
>         Working Group, and that issues certificates to subordinate CAs
>         that, in turn, actively issue certificates to end entities
>         such certificates being treated as valid by a software
>         product, such as a browser, intended for use by the general
>         public for relying upon certificates.Applicants that are not
>         actively issuing certificates but otherwise meet membership
>         criteria may be granted Associate Member status under Bylaw
>         Sec. 3.1 for a period of time to be designated by the Forum. "
>
>         _(3) _"_Certificate Consumer_: The applicant organization
>         produces a software product, such as a browser, intended for
>         use by the general public for relying upon certificates and is
>         a member of a Working Group"
>
>
>         Thank you,
>         Dimitris.
>
>
>
>              
>
>             Virginia Fournier
>
>             Sent from my iPhone
>
>             Please excuse iTypos
>
>
>             On Feb 6, 2018, at 12:14 AM, Dimitris Zacharopoulos
>             <jimmy at it.auth.gr <mailto:jimmy at it.auth.gr>> wrote:
>
>
>                 Hello all,
>
>                 I reviewed the diffs and the proposed alignment
>                 between WebTrust and ETSI is not included in the
>                 proposed Bylaws draft (2.1a). I sent a proposal on Jan
>                 9th
>                 (https://cabforum.org/pipermail/govreform/2018-January/000355.html
>                 <https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/xRJEOuXg-y_jlF4bPlvzPYNhn8a6eit8kncIq_wfMZ8=?d=zYU90j46QxTFNxAvlm_vJ4ZGqsTgwmt8yY9zvr0ptokxsxcxPTiHyfv81qHB08VOX3rrzZExOGgmgJkxIPZh2VDCB2-WrHv3HSXYZ8Wzk09rw2zFsyEvlFL13nhb7UzygerGhghF5qQl0uKJbkrgfHeL3_MxqGdnvlA7v_LK1cQLQhJS5vIh8quuXAU7PSSJvzKot7DAJo6bZDIRpzkFwNY2W9QBa2ODpEWTq9Pgug2qPyiezauI14B6fZZzXDwU0Ivj6KGS2Dy_1JXgXrsoUU_njc0WcH8N60MzLhzfYru_KK1QzFyolSRuA_TbFD0QG9P-7dp5mSt1H1BWsQ8OFAuLGgGHPbw9v12-oYSxeZkcV1l_eqlq15pTQI-hUSzH_gt5129IW5k-Txy56XOL79S-5w%3D%3D&u=https%3A%2F%2Fcabforum.org%2Fpipermail%2Fgovreform%2F2018-January%2F000355.html>)
>                 about the Server Certificate Working Group Charter but
>                 the concept is the same for the Bylaws.
>
>                   * If we include the requirement for "WebTrust for
>                     CAs" audit, then the equivalent ETSI audit should
>                     be "*ETSI EN 319 401*". This probably fits best
>                     for the Bylaws.
>                   * If we include the requirement for "WebTrust for
>                     CAs + WebTrust Baseline + NetSec " audit, then the
>                     equivalent ETSI audit should be "ETSI EN 319
>                     411-1". This probably fits best for the Server
>                     Certificate Working Group Charter.
>
>                 The old ETSI TS standards should not be included in
>                 the new bylaws.
>
>                 I was also puzzled with the following requirement in
>                 the Bylaws (section 2.1a) "such certificates being
>                 treated as valid by a Certificate Consumer*Member*".
>                 So, if a CA issues Certificates for Digital Signatures
>                 which are trusted by Adobe and Adobe is not a Member
>                 of the Forum, then this CA doesn't meet the
>                 requirements. Is this a correct interpretation?
>
>
>                 Best regards,
>                 Dimitris.
>
>
>                 On 6/2/2018 9:15 πμ, Virginia Fournier via Govreform
>                 wrote:
>
>                     Hi all,
>
>
>
>
>
>                     My apologies, I have a conflict for tomorrow’s
>                     meeting and will not be able to attend.  I am
>                     sending what I hope are virtually final versions
>                     of the documents.  I am sending diff files for the
>                     Bylaws and IPR policy, as the Word compare
>                     function will not cooperate. The diffs may be
>                     easier to read in the end anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
>                     As you may have seen from my email earlier today,
>                     we have to cut off any new issues, content, etc.
>                     from being added to the ballot so we can finalize
>                     it.  From this point forward, we need to just
>                     review what we have, clean up typos or any errors
>                     in the ballot, and move it forward.  With this in
>                     mind, I’d appreciate it if you’d review the
>                     documents attached/referenced below to see if
>                     there are any corrections/adjustments that need to
>                     be made.  We can keep a list of additional
>                     issues that should be addressed for the next ballot.
>
>
>
>
>
>                     What is the status of the Server Certificate WG
>                     charter?  I sent some comments to Dean/Ben - have
>                     you had a chance to look at those?  We
>                     need the final version of that document also to
>                     complete the package.
>
>
>
>
>
>                     I’d like to send the documents out early next week
>                     and start an “informal” discussion period of 7
>                     days next for any questions people may have.  Does
>                     anyone see any obstacles to doing that?
>
>
>
>
>
>                     Here’s the diff for the Bylaws (all changes since
>                     version 1.7 shown).
>
>
>
>
>
>                     https://draftable.com/compare/JHYFfXWaHGRx
>                     <https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/uyKpIpWVOanrzEuutNyKQlSALyoi3PkQHMormrBAvWs=?d=zYU90j46QxTFNxAvlm_vJ4ZGqsTgwmt8yY9zvr0ptokxsxcxPTiHyfv81qHB08VOX3rrzZExOGgmgJkxIPZh2VDCB2-WrHv3HSXYZ8Wzk09rw2zFsyEvlFL13nhb7UzygerGhghF5qQl0uKJbkrgfHeL3_MxqGdnvlA7v_LK1cQLQhJS5vIh8quuXAU7PSSJvzKot7DAJo6bZDIRpzkFwNY2W9QBa2ODpEWTq9Pgug2qPyiezauI14B6fZZzXDwU0Ivj6KGS2Dy_1JXgXrsoUU_njc0WcH8N60MzLhzfYru_KK1QzFyolSRuA_TbFD0QG9P-7dp5mSt1H1BWsQ8OFAuLGgGHPbw9v12-oYSxeZkcV1l_eqlq15pTQI-hUSzH_gt5129IW5k-Txy56XOL79S-5w%3D%3D&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdraftable.com%2Fcompare%2FJHYFfXWaHGRx>
>
>                      
>
>                     Here’s the diff for the IPR Policy (all changes
>                     since version 1.2 shown:
>
>                      
>
>                     https://draftable.com/compare/QuHvYZiCAAUr
>                     <https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/8q3XvGqohjM8pvFAj8n2TNaDAB0so_mrZcspY58oCLE=?d=zYU90j46QxTFNxAvlm_vJ4ZGqsTgwmt8yY9zvr0ptokxsxcxPTiHyfv81qHB08VOX3rrzZExOGgmgJkxIPZh2VDCB2-WrHv3HSXYZ8Wzk09rw2zFsyEvlFL13nhb7UzygerGhghF5qQl0uKJbkrgfHeL3_MxqGdnvlA7v_LK1cQLQhJS5vIh8quuXAU7PSSJvzKot7DAJo6bZDIRpzkFwNY2W9QBa2ODpEWTq9Pgug2qPyiezauI14B6fZZzXDwU0Ivj6KGS2Dy_1JXgXrsoUU_njc0WcH8N60MzLhzfYru_KK1QzFyolSRuA_TbFD0QG9P-7dp5mSt1H1BWsQ8OFAuLGgGHPbw9v12-oYSxeZkcV1l_eqlq15pTQI-hUSzH_gt5129IW5k-Txy56XOL79S-5w%3D%3D&u=https%3A%2F%2Fdraftable.com%2Fcompare%2FQuHvYZiCAAUr>
>
>                      
>
>                     =
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                     Best regards,
>
>                      
>
>                     Virginia Fournier
>
>                     Senior Standards Counsel
>
>                      Apple Inc.
>
>                     ☏669-227-9595
>
>                     ✉︎ vmf at apple.com <mailto:vmf at apple.com>
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                     On Dec 21, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Virginia Fournier
>                     via Govreform <govreform at cabforum.org
>                     <mailto:govreform at cabforum.org>> wrote:
>
>                      
>
>                     Hello all,
>
>                      
>
>                     Here are the final documents for Ballot 206.
>                      Please confirm that you’re ready to go forward
>                     with them in January after the holidays.  Please
>                     also let me know if you can open the Bylaws diff
>                     file.  What is the status of the Server
>                     Certificate WG’s charter?  Thanks for everyone’s
>                     hard work on this project.
>
>                      
>
>                     <CABF_Ballot206_20DEC17.docx>
>
>                     <CABF-IPR-Policy-v.1.3_20DEC17_clean.doc>
>
>                     <CABF-IPR-Policy-v.1.3_20DEC17_redline.doc>
>
>                     <CABF-Bylaws-v.1.8_20DEC17_clean.doc>
>
>                     <CABF-Governance Change FAQ_20DEC17.docx>
>
>                     <Bylaws DiffNow Comparison Report.htm>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                     Best regards,
>
>                      
>
>                     Virginia Fournier
>
>                     Senior Standards Counsel
>
>                      Apple Inc.
>
>                     ☏669-227-9595
>
>                     ✉︎ vmf at apple.com <mailto:vmf at apple.com>
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                      
>
>                     _______________________________________________
>                     Govreform mailing list
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>
>
>                     =
>
>
>
>
>                     _______________________________________________
>
>                     Govreform mailing list
>
>                     Govreform at cabforum.org <mailto:Govreform at cabforum.org>
>
>                     https://cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/govreform
>                     <https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/8rSOldnBKg8XvPcCi-8xhn3L1EZQhM_E6Wxoe2uL3ps=?d=zYU90j46QxTFNxAvlm_vJ4ZGqsTgwmt8yY9zvr0ptokxsxcxPTiHyfv81qHB08VOX3rrzZExOGgmgJkxIPZh2VDCB2-WrHv3HSXYZ8Wzk09rw2zFsyEvlFL13nhb7UzygerGhghF5qQl0uKJbkrgfHeL3_MxqGdnvlA7v_LK1cQLQhJS5vIh8quuXAU7PSSJvzKot7DAJo6bZDIRpzkFwNY2W9QBa2ODpEWTq9Pgug2qPyiezauI14B6fZZzXDwU0Ivj6KGS2Dy_1JXgXrsoUU_njc0WcH8N60MzLhzfYru_KK1QzFyolSRuA_TbFD0QG9P-7dp5mSt1H1BWsQ8OFAuLGgGHPbw9v12-oYSxeZkcV1l_eqlq15pTQI-hUSzH_gt5129IW5k-Txy56XOL79S-5w%3D%3D&u=https%3A%2F%2Fcabforum.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgovreform>
>
>                  
>
>          
>
>      
>
>  
>

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