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    <p><font face="Calibri">I also agree with the proposal, but I am not
        clear where does this "magic number" of 72 (months) come from...</font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri">Adriano</font></p>
    <p><font face="Calibri"><br>
      </font></p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 04/04/2024 20:59, Martijn Katerbarg
      via Cscwg-public ha scritto:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0100018eaa7b6d69-e9ea4d7e-77d0-4dc8-aecd-677a3d6104d6-000000@email.amazonses.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Ian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
            I like that proposal. Perhaps a minor nit is that I’d
            suggest we replace “new” with “newly issued Subordinate CA
            certificates after that date with a validity…”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’ll
            leave this open for discussion a few more days, and restart
            the discussion period sometime next week, unless there is
            further feedback.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Martijn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">From:
                  </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                  lang="EN-US">Ian McMillan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"><ianmcm@microsoft.com></a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 4 April 2024 at 19:54<br>
                  <b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"><martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com></a>,
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a>, Mohit Kumar
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mohit.kumar@globalsign.com"><mohit.kumar@globalsign.com></a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>RE: [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                  Certificate and SubCA updates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                  lang="EN-US">CAUTION: This email originated from
                  outside of the organization. Do not click links or
                  open attachments unless you recognize the sender and
                  know the content is safe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">Hi Martijn and all,</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">Thinking more about this requirement
                    and the way folks are operating today and I can see
                    with this requirement CA may be constrained when
                    they encounter a need for greater agility to scale
                    out. I’d like to propose a means to keep issuing CAs
                    for time stamping end-entity certificates online
                    when they are shorter-lived certificates (less than
                    72 months in validity). I agree that we need wording
                    to say existing CAs are not required to adhere to
                    these clarified requirements, but all new subCAs
                    must meet the requirements. Here is my proposal…</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">“‘Effective April 15, 2025, a Timestamp
                    Authority MUST protect all Private Keys associated
                    with its Root CA certificates and <span
                      style="color:red">new</span> Subordinate CA
                    certificates <span style="color:red">with a
                      validity period of greater than 72 months</span>
                    containing the `id-kp-timeStamping` KeyPurposeId in
                    the `extKeyUsage` extension (per section 7.1.2.2 g)
                    and that issued Timestamp Certificates with the
                    policyidentifier 2.23.140.1.4.2, in a Hardware
                    Crypto Module conforming to the requirements
                    specified in [Section
                    6.2.7.1](#6271-private-key-storage-for-CA-keys),
                    maintained in a High Security Zone and in an offline
                    state or air-gapped from all other networks.’</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">What my intent for this to mean is that
                    all new subCAs issuing time stamp certificates will
                    fall into two buckets….</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
                  <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                    style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">SubCA
                      Certificate validity greater than 72 months
                      MUST/SHALL be secured offline</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                  <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                    style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">SubCA
                      Certificate validity less than 72 months MAY be
                      secured online (or ‘SHOULD be secured offline’)</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                </ul>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">This is similar to a policy we’ve
                    operated under internally with the risk of online
                    issuing CAs where we need greater agility to scale
                    out as the business needs for certificate
                    issuance/fulfillment have higher volumes and latency
                    requirements that offline CAs just cannot
                    effectively meet. </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">Thanks,<br>
                    Ian </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <div>
                  <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                          lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                        lang="EN-US"> Cscwg-public
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> <b>On
                          Behalf Of </b>Martijn Katerbarg via
                        Cscwg-public<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 4, 2024 6:07 AM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> Mohit Kumar
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mohit.kumar@globalsign.com"><mohit.kumar@globalsign.com></a>;
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [Cscwg-public]
                        Timestamp Certificate and SubCA updates</span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">Hi Mohit,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">></span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Can I confirm
                    that the proposal to protect private keys of
                    Subordinate CAs in an offline state is applicable to
                    only private keys generated for Roots/Subordinate
                    CAs created after the effective date.</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">You’re touching on a good point here.
                    The way the requirement is written, can be
                    interpreted as such that the CA would need to do
                    this for existing SubCAs as well. I’m leaving out
                    Root CAs here, since these even now, already are
                    required to be in an offline state.</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">But, making this a requirement for
                    existing SubCAs may be an issue… while CAs may be
                    able to migrate keys to an offline HSM, that’s not
                    always a given. If that’s not an option, then key
                    destruction would also not be an option, cause even
                    if the CA wouldn’t use the SubCA is issue new
                    timestamp certificates anymore, they would still
                    need use the key for signing CRLs. </span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">I think it makes sense to make the
                    requirement to be for any SubCA still used for the
                    issuance of timestamp certificates going forward. If
                    there’s no objection to that approach, I can update
                    the ballot. </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"><br>
                    (I won’t be able to make todays call, but please
                    feel free to discuss and let me know the outcome)</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">></span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Also, per my
                    understanding, the scope of the proposal is limited
                    to only Root/Subordinate CAs issuing Timestamp
                    Certificates for Code Signing (i.e. with the OID
                    2.23.140.1.4.2). If yes, may be it would be better
                    to clarify the same with the following language
                    update</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">Correct. I would expect Section 1.2
                    already makes clear that only TS certificates with
                    this OID, assert compliance with the CSBRs. </span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">As far from a root store standpoint, it
                    seems the the MS Root store policy requires the
                    Policy OID to be included for TLS and Non-EV code
                    signing, but there is no mentioning there about
                    Timestamping certificates specifically.</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
                    <br>
                    Martijn</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                            lang="EN-US">From: </span></b><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Mohit Kumar <</span><span
                          lang="EN-US"><a
                            href="mailto:mohit.kumar@globalsign.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt">mohit.kumar@globalsign.com</span></a></span><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">><br>
                          <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 4 April 2024 at 04:19<br>
                          <b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg <</span><span
                          lang="EN-US"><a
                            href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</span></a></span><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">>, </span><span lang="EN-US"><a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US"> <</span><span lang="EN-US"><a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">><br>
                          <b>Subject: </b>RE: [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                          Certificate and SubCA updates</span><span
                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US">Hi Martijn,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US">Can I confirm that the proposal to
                        protect private keys of Subordinate CAs in an
                        offline state is applicable to only private
                        keys generated for Roots/Subordinate CAs created
                        after the effective date.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US">Also, per my understanding, the
                        scope of the proposal is limited to only
                        Root/Subordinate CAs issuing Timestamp
                        Certificates for Code Signing (i.e. with the
                        OID 2.23.140.1.4.2). If yes, may be it would be
                        better to clarify the same with the following
                        language update<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US">‘Effective April 15, 2025, a
                        Timestamp Authority MUST protect Private Keys
                        associated with its Root CA certificates and
                        Subordinate CA certificates containing the
                        `id-kp-timeStamping` KeyPurposeId in the
                        `extKeyUsage` extension (per section 7.1.2.2 g)
                        and that issued Timestamp
                        Certificates with the policyidentifier 2.23.140.1.4.2<span
                          style="color:#CD5937">, </span>in a Hardware
                        Crypto Module conforming to the requirements
                        specified in [Section
                        6.2.7.1](#6271-private-key-storage-for-CA-keys),
                        maintained in a High Security Zone and in an
                        offline state or air-gapped from all other
                        networks.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US">Thanks <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:30.0pt"><span
                        lang="EN-US">Mohit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <div>
                      <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                              lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US"> Cscwg-public <</span><span
                            lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martijn
                            Katerbarg via Cscwg-public<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 19, 2024 5:04 AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> </span><span lang="EN-US"><a
                              href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US">; Dimitris Zacharopoulos
                            (HARICA) <</span><span lang="EN-US"><a
                              href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">dzacharo@harica.gr</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
                            lang="EN-US">><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                            Certificate and SubCA updates</span><span
                            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US">The language (</span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fcode-signing%2Fpull%2F34&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C6b3466de38b944c4e95508dc54d04b7f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638478500818433702%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bvH%2B3sXZ2FajBydG%2BKx%2FPq2IGaDyaMUBjpE%2FI5tOw3A%3D&reserved=0"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34</span></a></span><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> ) has
                        been further updated (</span><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fcode-signing%2Fpull%2F34%2Fcommits%2F9288f7ec376b4bbd139dcb596bcb2d1bf9bd7683&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C6b3466de38b944c4e95508dc54d04b7f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638478500818443934%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gijk9MMkc%2FBgJ1ixouYmXL%2B6ELmREaVwDy%2BlvODTNb0%3D&reserved=0"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34/commits/9288f7ec376b4bbd139dcb596bcb2d1bf9bd7683</span></a></span><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">) based on
                        the below. </span><span lang="EN-US"><a
                          id="OWAAM1110A1362D438B4BADD95FD51E9651CD"
                          href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;text-decoration:none">@Dimitris
                            Zacharopoulos (HARICA)</span></a></span><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> I
                        replaced “deleted” with “destroyed” in your
                        proposal, as I believe it would fit better in
                        that section.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US">Are there any further comments? If
                        not I will start the official discussion period
                        in the next few days.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
                        <br>
                        Martijn</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                      <div>
                        <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                                style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                lang="EN-US">From: </span></b><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">Cscwg-public <</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">> on behalf of Martijn
                              Katerbarg via Cscwg-public <</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"><a
                                href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">><br>
                              <b>Date: </b>Monday, 11 March 2024 at
                              09:51<br>
                              <b>To: </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos
                              (HARICA) <</span><span lang="EN-US"><a
                                href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt">dzacharo@harica.gr</span></a></span><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">>, </span><span
                              lang="EN-US"><a
                                href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US"> <</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"><a
                                href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">><br>
                              <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Cscwg-public]
                              Timestamp Certificate and SubCA updates</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                              lang="EN-US">CAUTION: This email
                              originated from outside of the
                              organization. Do not click links or open
                              attachments unless you recognize the
                              sender and know the content is safe.</span><span
                              lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Works
                                for me on both fronts. I’ll leave the
                                discussion open for a bit so others can
                                add on.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                            <div
id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                              <div>
                                <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Dimitris Zacharopoulos
                                      (HARICA) <</span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><a
                                        href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">dzacharo@harica.gr</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">><br>
                                      <b>Date: </b>Monday, 11 March
                                      2024 at 09:48<br>
                                      <b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg <</span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">>, </span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> <</span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">><br>
                                      <b>Subject: </b>Re:
                                      [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                                      Certificate and SubCA updates</span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                      lang="EN-US">CAUTION: This email
                                      originated from outside of the
                                      organization. Do not click links
                                      or open attachments unless you
                                      recognize the sender and know the
                                      content is safe.</span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                      style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                        lang="EN-US">On 11/3/2024 10:32
                                        π.μ., Martijn Katerbarg wrote:</span><span
                                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">Thanks Dimitris,
                                          I’ve reviewed and accepted the
                                          suggestions. </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">> witnessed by
                                          members of two different
                                          Trusted Roles (not by two
                                          Trusted Role Members, i.e. you
                                          can't use two persons of the
                                          same Trusted Role).</span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">TBH, I’m not sure
                                          why it couldn’t be two persons
                                          of the same Trusted Role?</span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                      style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                      lang="EN-US"><br>
                                      I'm not a native English speaker
                                      but I think "Roles" (plural)
                                      points to the different types of
                                      Roles, while "Trusted Role
                                      members" would point to different
                                      Members in any Trusted Role. If
                                      the intent is to have a 4-eye
                                      principle control from any Trusted
                                      Role, we can make it clearer by
                                      using the "Trusted Role members"
                                      phrase.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">> In general,
                                          a "key destruction" ceremony
                                          includes the deletion of all
                                          copies of the key, including
                                          copies that reside in backups.
                                          If we require a "key
                                          destruction" ceremony, the
                                          "restore key" case is
                                          nonsensical. We probably need
                                          to work on this some more so
                                          that we all have the same
                                          understanding and
                                          expectations.</span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">> It's ok to
                                          keep the keys in backups but
                                          if you happen to restore them
                                          in an HSM, you must not use
                                          them to sign anything. If a
                                          CA/TSA can also "destroy" the
                                          key, meaning that all copies
                                          of that private key can be
                                          unequivocally/securely deleted
                                          (i.e. without a way to recover
                                          the key), including any
                                          instance of the key as part of
                                          a backup, the better!</span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">Agreed in general
                                          regarding the Key Destruction
                                          ceremony. However having to
                                          also destroy the backup of the
                                          key, and do this again for any
                                          next key every 18 months, can
                                          be a lengthy procedure,
                                          specially if backups are
                                          stored securely and offline in
                                          different places around the
                                          world. That’s why for this
                                          case we specifically call out
                                          that backups don’t need to be
                                          destroyed. </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">But your point on
                                          an HSM restoring an entire
                                          partition and that violating
                                          the requirement, is valid. </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">For reference,
                                          the current proposed language
                                          is:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                            lang="EN-US">The CA MAY
                                            maintain existing backup
                                            sets containing the Private
                                            Key corresponding to a
                                            Timestamp Certificate. The
                                            CA MUST NOT restore the
                                            Private Key corresponding to
                                            a Timestamp Certificate
                                            contained within the backup
                                            if the Timestamp Certificate
                                            was issued more than 15
                                            months prior to restoration
                                            of the backup.</span></i><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                            lang="EN-US"> </span></i><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">What about we
                                          once more use the NSR language
                                          and state:</span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                            lang="EN-US">The CA MAY
                                            maintain existing backup
                                            sets containing the Private
                                            Key corresponding to a
                                            Timestamp Certificate. The
                                            CA SHOULD NOT restore the
                                            Private Key corresponding to
                                            a Timestamp Certificate
                                            contained within the backup
                                            if the Timestamp Certificate
                                            was issued more than 15
                                            months prior to restoration
                                            of the backup. If the CA
                                            does restore such a Private
                                            Key, the CA SHALL only
                                            restore the Private Key in a
                                            suitable HSM while it’s
                                            maintained in a High
                                            Security Zone and in an
                                            offline state or air-gapped
                                            from all other networks and
                                            perform a new key
                                            destruction ceremony prior
                                            to the HSM being brought to
                                            an online state.</span></i><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                            lang="EN-US"> </span></i><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">Thoughts? </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                      style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                      lang="EN-US"><br>
                                      If we want to allow the existence
                                      of a key in a backup, IMHO we
                                      should avoid using the "key
                                      destruction" language. How about
                                      the following:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Modify</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                          style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">For Timestamp
                                          Certificates issued on or
                                          after June 1, 2024, the CA
                                          SHALL log the removal of the
                                          Private Key from the Hardware
                                          Crypto Module through means of
                                          a key destruction ceremony
                                          performed by the CA and
                                          witnessed and signed-off by at
                                          least two Trusted Roles.</span></i><span
                                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                      style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                      lang="EN-US"><br>
                                      to</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                          style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">For Timestamp
                                          Certificates issued on or
                                          after June 1, 2024, the CA
                                          SHALL log the removal of the
                                          Private Key from the Hardware
                                          Crypto Module through means of
                                          a key <span
                                            style="color:blue">deletion
                                          </span>ceremony performed by
                                          the CA and witnessed and
                                          signed-off by at least two <span
                                            style="color:blue">Trusted
                                            Role members</span>. <span
                                            style="color:blue">The CA
                                            MAY also perform a key
                                            destruction ceremony, </span></span></i><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue" lang="EN-US">meaning that all copies
                                        of that private key are
                                        unequivocally/securely deleted
                                        (i.e. without a way to recover
                                        the key), including any instance
                                        of the key as part of a backup,
                                        to satisfy this requirement</span><span
                                        style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                        lang="EN-US">.</span><span
                                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                      style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                      lang="EN-US"><br>
                                      Thanks,<br>
                                      Dimitris.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                            lang="EN-US"> </span></i><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">As a side-note, I
                                          wonder if there’s a task for
                                          the NSWG (or Definitions WG
                                          once it’s setup) to define
                                          terms for online and offline
                                          HSMs</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                      <div
id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                                        <div>
                                          <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Cscwg-public </span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> on behalf of Dimitris
                                                Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
                                                via Cscwg-public </span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
                                                <b>Date: </b>Sunday, 10
                                                March 2024 at 10:30<br>
                                                <b>To: </b></span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></span></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
                                                <b>Subject: </b>Re:
                                                [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                                                Certificate and SubCA
                                                updates</span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"
                                                lang="EN-US">CAUTION:
                                                This email originated
                                                from outside of the
                                                organization. Do not
                                                click links or open
                                                attachments unless you
                                                recognize the sender and
                                                know the content is
                                                safe.</span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                              style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                              lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                              lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
                                                Martijn,<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Two suggestions
                                                submitted on GitHub.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Regarding the
                                                prohibition of restoring
                                                a private key of a
                                                Timestamp Certificate,
                                                I'm not sure how
                                                universal this can be
                                                because some HSMs
                                                restore an entire
                                                slot/partition, which
                                                might contain Private
                                                Keys associated with
                                                obsolete Timestamp
                                                Certificates. As the
                                                ballot is written, such
                                                an action would be a
                                                violation.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                In general, a "key
                                                destruction" ceremony
                                                includes the deletion of
                                                all copies of the key,
                                                including copies that
                                                reside in backups. If we
                                                require a "key
                                                destruction" ceremony,
                                                the "restore key" case
                                                is nonsensical. We
                                                probably need to work on
                                                this some more so that
                                                we all have the same
                                                understanding and
                                                expectations.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Let me restate the
                                                intent of this
                                                requirement as discussed
                                                all this time, and
                                                please correct me if I'm
                                                wrong.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                IMO, the goal is to put
                                                the keys associated with
                                                Timestamp Certificates
                                                out of use, 15 months
                                                after the <i>notBefore
                                                </i>of the Timestamp
                                                Certificate. <br>
                                                <br>
                                                In order to achieve some
                                                level of assurance for
                                                this action, the
                                                proposal is to delete
                                                the keys from the HSM 18
                                                months after the <i>notBefore
                                                </i>of the Timestamp
                                                Certificate, in an
                                                audited way, witnessed
                                                by members of two
                                                different Trusted Roles
                                                (not by two Trusted Role
                                                Members, i.e. you can't
                                                use two persons of the
                                                same Trusted Role). <br>
                                                <br>
                                                It's ok to keep the keys
                                                in backups but if you
                                                happen to restore them
                                                in an HSM, you must not
                                                use them to sign
                                                anything. If a CA/TSA
                                                can also "destroy" the
                                                key, meaning that all
                                                copies of that private
                                                key can be
                                                unequivocally/securely
                                                deleted (i.e. without a
                                                way to recover the key),
                                                including any instance
                                                of the key as part of a
                                                backup, the better!<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Thoughts?<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Dimitris.</span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">On 6/3/2024 2:07 μ.μ., Martijn
                                                  Katerbarg via
                                                  Cscwg-public wrote:</span><span
                                                  lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">All,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">As discussed last week, I’d send
                                                    out the draft
                                                    language for this
                                                    ballot once more
                                                    before starting the
                                                    discussion period. 
                                                    The latest version
                                                    can be found in </span><span
                                                    lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcabforum%2Fcode-signing%2Fpull%2F34&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C6b3466de38b944c4e95508dc54d04b7f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638478500818451355%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xFI1fEshQ6bVGbv7Fkhiq50yu3aQVtlnHsItYzjbHnc%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">I’ve made changes this morning to
                                                    add 3 effective
                                                    dates, these are:</span><span
                                                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <ol
                                                  style="margin-top:0cm"
                                                  type="1" start="1">
                                                  <li
class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">For the removal of private keys
                                                      associated with
                                                      timestamp
                                                      certificates,
                                                      effective June 1<sup>st</sup>,
                                                      2024, CAs will
                                                      need to properly
                                                      log the removal of
                                                      said key. </span><span
                                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                </ol>
                                                <ol
                                                  style="margin-top:0cm"
                                                  type="1" start="1">
                                                  <ol
style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
                                                    <li
class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l5 level2 lfo3"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">While I expect CAs to already
                                                        properly log
                                                        this for audit
                                                        purposes even
                                                        now, there may
                                                        be exceptions
                                                        for when this
                                                        has not been
                                                        done,  for
                                                        example a
                                                        private key or
                                                        timestamp
                                                        certificate that
                                                        was signed maybe
                                                        20 years ago.
                                                        This language is
                                                        added to avoid
                                                        any confusion on
                                                        from what point
                                                        there needs to
                                                        be an audit
                                                        trail</span><span
                                                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                  </ol>
                                                </ol>
                                                <ol
                                                  style="margin-top:0cm"
                                                  type="1" start="1">
                                                  <li
class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Effective April 15, 2025, private
                                                      keys associated
                                                      with SubCAs
                                                      containing the
                                                      “Time Stamping”
                                                      EKU will need to
                                                      be placed in
                                                      offline HSMs.</span><span
                                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                </ol>
                                                <ol
                                                  style="margin-top:0cm"
                                                  type="1" start="1">
                                                  <ol
style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
                                                    <li
class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo5"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">I believe a roughly one year
                                                        effective date
                                                        is appropriate
                                                        here, since CAs
                                                        may need to move
                                                        keys from one
                                                        HSM to another.</span><span
                                                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                  </ol>
                                                </ol>
                                                <ol
                                                  style="margin-top:0cm"
                                                  type="1" start="1">
                                                  <li
class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo6"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">For private keys associated with
                                                      timestamp
                                                      certificates that
                                                      were issued for
                                                      greater than 15
                                                      months, CAs will
                                                      need to remove the
                                                      private keys 18
                                                      months after
                                                      certificate
                                                      issuance, starting
                                                      April 15, 2025.</span><span
                                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                </ol>
                                                <ol
                                                  style="margin-top:0cm"
                                                  type="1" start="1">
                                                  <ol
style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
                                                    <li
class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo7"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Likewise, I feel like anything
                                                        involving HSM
                                                        process changes,
                                                        should have a
                                                        longer effective
                                                        date, and it
                                                        makes sense to
                                                        align this with
                                                        the effective
                                                        date above.</span><span
                                                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                  </ol>
                                                </ol>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">I’ll start a ballot on this early
                                                    next week, unless
                                                    there is concern
                                                    with the above. </span><span
                                                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    Martijn</span><span
                                                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                                  lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                              <pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                                              <pre><span lang="EN-US">Cscwg-public mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                                              <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="mailto:Cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                                              <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.cabforum.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcscwg-public&data=05%7C02%7Cmartijn.katerbarg%40sectigo.com%7C6b3466de38b944c4e95508dc54d04b7f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C638478500818457689%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=auRwiJgcdQwhLAicHeqXhVIawOMAwJkM6odGMr%2BRYOY%3D&reserved=0"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
                                            </blockquote>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                                style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                                lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                                lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                          </div>
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                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:12.0pt"
                                      lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Cscwg-public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Cscwg-public@cabforum.org">Cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public</a>
</pre>
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