<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p><font face="Calibri">+1</font><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Il 04/04/2024 04:20, Mohit Kumar via
      Cscwg-public ha scritto:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0100018ea6e7fed5-9c74bfdc-c982-4414-8dc1-1f8657dc9a1e-000000@email.amazonses.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta name="Generator"
        content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
      <style>@font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Aptos;}@font-face
        {font-family:Consolas;
        panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0in;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:#467886;
        text-decoration:underline;}pre
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
        margin:0in;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:"Courier New";}p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
        {mso-style-priority:34;
        margin-top:0in;
        margin-right:0in;
        margin-bottom:0in;
        margin-left:.5in;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}span.HTMLPreformattedChar
        {mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
        mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
        font-family:Consolas;
        mso-ligatures:none;
        mso-fareast-language:EN-GB;}span.EmailStyle23
        {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
        font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;
        color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-size:10.0pt;
        mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}ol
        {margin-bottom:0in;}ul
        {margin-bottom:0in;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt">Hi
          Martijn,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt">Can
          I confirm that the proposal to protect private keys of
          Subordinate CAs in an offline state is applicable to
          only private keys generated for Roots/Subordinate CAs created
          after the effective date.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt">Also,
          per my understanding, the scope of the proposal is limited
          to only Root/Subordinate CAs issuing Timestamp Certificates
          for Code Signing (i.e. with the OID 2.23.140.1.4.2). If yes,
          may be it would be better to clarify the same with the
          following language update<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt">‘Effective
          April 15, 2025, a Timestamp Authority MUST protect Private
          Keys associated with its Root CA certificates and Subordinate
          CA certificates containing the `id-kp-timeStamping`
          KeyPurposeId in the `extKeyUsage` extension (per section
          7.1.2.2 g) and that issued Timestamp
          Certificates with the policyidentifier 2.23.140.1.4.2<span
            style="color:#CD5937">, </span>in a Hardware Crypto Module
          conforming to the requirements specified in [Section
          6.2.7.1](#6271-private-key-storage-for-CA-keys), maintained in
          a High Security Zone and in an offline state or air-gapped
          from all other networks.’<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt">Thanks <o:p></o:p></p>
        <p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:30.0pt">Mohit<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
                Cscwg-public <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> <b>On
                  Behalf Of </b>Martijn Katerbarg via Cscwg-public<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 19, 2024 5:04 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>; Dimitris
                Zacharopoulos (HARICA) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Timestamp Certificate
                and SubCA updates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The language
            (<a href="https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34</a>
            ) has been further updated (<a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34/commits/9288f7ec376b4bbd139dcb596bcb2d1bf9bd7683"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34/commits/9288f7ec376b4bbd139dcb596bcb2d1bf9bd7683</a>)
            based on the below. <a
              id="OWAAM1110A1362D438B4BADD95FD51E9651CD"
              href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;text-decoration:none">@Dimitris
                Zacharopoulos (HARICA)</span></a> I replaced “deleted”
            with “destroyed” in your proposal, as I believe it would fit
            better in that section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Are there
            any further comments? If not I will start the official
            discussion period in the next few days.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Martijn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
          <div>
            <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Cscwg-public
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a> on behalf of
                  Martijn Katerbarg via Cscwg-public
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Monday, 11 March 2024 at 09:51<br>
                  <b>To: </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                  Certificate and SubCA updates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
                  This email originated from outside of the
                  organization. Do not click links or open attachments
                  unless you recognize the sender and know the content
                  is safe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Works
                    for me on both fronts. I’ll leave the discussion
                    open for a bit so others can add on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                  <div>
                    <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Dimitris
                          Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a><br>
                          <b>Date: </b>Monday, 11 March 2024 at 09:48<br>
                          <b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"><martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com></a>,
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
                          <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                          <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Cscwg-public] Timestamp
                          Certificate and SubCA updates</span><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
                          This email originated from outside of the
                          organization. Do not click links or open
                          attachments unless you recognize the sender
                          and know the content is safe.</span><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt">On 11/3/2024 10:32
                            π.μ., Martijn Katerbarg wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">Thanks Dimitris,
                              I’ve reviewed and accepted the
                              suggestions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">> witnessed by
                              members of two different Trusted Roles
                              (not by two Trusted Role Members, i.e. you
                              can't use two persons of the same Trusted
                              Role).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">TBH, I’m not sure
                              why it couldn’t be two persons of the same
                              Trusted Role?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                          I'm not a native English speaker but I think
                          "Roles" (plural) points to the different types
                          of Roles, while "Trusted Role members" would
                          point to different Members in any Trusted
                          Role. If the intent is to have a 4-eye
                          principle control from any Trusted Role, we
                          can make it clearer by using the "Trusted Role
                          members" phrase.</span><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">> In general,
                              a "key destruction" ceremony includes the
                              deletion of all copies of the key,
                              including copies that reside in backups.
                              If we require a "key destruction"
                              ceremony, the "restore key" case is
                              nonsensical. We probably need to work on
                              this some more so that we all have the
                              same understanding and expectations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">> It's ok to
                              keep the keys in backups but if you happen
                              to restore them in an HSM, you must not
                              use them to sign anything. If a CA/TSA can
                              also "destroy" the key, meaning that all
                              copies of that private key can be
                              unequivocally/securely deleted (i.e.
                              without a way to recover the key),
                              including any instance of the key as part
                              of a backup, the better!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">Agreed in general
                              regarding the Key Destruction ceremony.
                              However having to also destroy the backup
                              of the key, and do this again for any next
                              key every 18 months, can be a lengthy
                              procedure, specially if backups are stored
                              securely and offline in different places
                              around the world. That’s why for this case
                              we specifically call out that backups
                              don’t need to be destroyed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">But your point on
                              an HSM restoring an entire partition and
                              that violating the requirement, is valid.
                              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">For reference,
                              the current proposed language is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt">The CA MAY
                                maintain existing backup sets containing
                                the Private Key corresponding to a
                                Timestamp Certificate. The CA MUST NOT
                                restore the Private Key corresponding to
                                a Timestamp Certificate contained within
                                the backup if the Timestamp Certificate
                                was issued more than 15 months prior to
                                restoration of the backup.</span></i><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></i><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">What about we
                              once more use the NSR language and state:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt">The CA MAY
                                maintain existing backup sets containing
                                the Private Key corresponding to a
                                Timestamp Certificate. The CA SHOULD NOT
                                restore the Private Key corresponding to
                                a Timestamp Certificate contained within
                                the backup if the Timestamp Certificate
                                was issued more than 15 months prior to
                                restoration of the backup. If the CA
                                does restore such a Private Key, the CA
                                SHALL only restore the Private Key in a
                                suitable HSM while it’s maintained in a
                                High Security Zone and in an offline
                                state or air-gapped from all other
                                networks and perform a new key
                                destruction ceremony prior to the HSM
                                being brought to an online state.</span></i><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></i><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">Thoughts? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                          If we want to allow the existence of a key in
                          a backup, IMHO we should avoid using the "key
                          destruction" language. How about the
                          following:<br>
                          <br>
                          Modify</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt">For Timestamp
                              Certificates issued on or after June 1,
                              2024, the CA SHALL log the removal of the
                              Private Key from the Hardware Crypto
                              Module through means of a key destruction
                              ceremony performed by the CA and witnessed
                              and signed-off by at least two Trusted
                              Roles.</span></i><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                          to</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                              style="font-size:12.0pt">For Timestamp
                              Certificates issued on or after June 1,
                              2024, the CA SHALL log the removal of the
                              Private Key from the Hardware Crypto
                              Module through means of a key <span
                                style="color:blue">deletion </span>ceremony
                              performed by the CA and witnessed and
                              signed-off by at least two <span
                                style="color:blue">Trusted Role members</span>.
                              <span style="color:blue">The CA MAY also
                                perform a key destruction ceremony, </span></span></i><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue">meaning
                            that all copies of that private key are
                            unequivocally/securely deleted (i.e. without
                            a way to recover the key), including any
                            instance of the key as part of a backup, to
                            satisfy this requirement</span><span
                            style="font-size:12.0pt">.</span><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt"><br>
                          Thanks,<br>
                          Dimitris.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></i><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt">As a side-note, I
                              wonder if there’s a task for the NSWG (or
                              Definitions WG once it’s setup) to define
                              terms for online and offline HSMs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          <div
                            id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                            <div>
                              <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
                                    style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Cscwg-public
                                    <a
href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
                                    on behalf of Dimitris Zacharopoulos
                                    (HARICA) via Cscwg-public <a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                                    <b>Date: </b>Sunday, 10 March 2024
                                    at 10:30<br>
                                    <b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
                                    <a
href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a><br>
                                    <b>Subject: </b>Re: [Cscwg-public]
                                    Timestamp Certificate and SubCA
                                    updates</span><span
                                    style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
                                    This email originated from outside
                                    of the organization. Do not click
                                    links or open attachments unless you
                                    recognize the sender and know the
                                    content is safe.</span><span
                                    style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span
                                  style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:11.0pt">Hi Martijn,<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Two suggestions submitted on GitHub.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Regarding the prohibition of
                                    restoring a private key of a
                                    Timestamp Certificate, I'm not sure
                                    how universal this can be because
                                    some HSMs restore an entire
                                    slot/partition, which might contain
                                    Private Keys associated with
                                    obsolete Timestamp Certificates. As
                                    the ballot is written, such an
                                    action would be a violation.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    In general, a "key destruction"
                                    ceremony includes the deletion of
                                    all copies of the key, including
                                    copies that reside in backups. If we
                                    require a "key destruction"
                                    ceremony, the "restore key" case is
                                    nonsensical. We probably need to
                                    work on this some more so that we
                                    all have the same understanding and
                                    expectations.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Let me restate the intent of this
                                    requirement as discussed all this
                                    time, and please correct me if I'm
                                    wrong.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    IMO, the goal is to put the keys
                                    associated with Timestamp
                                    Certificates out of use, 15 months
                                    after the <i>notBefore </i>of the
                                    Timestamp Certificate. <br>
                                    <br>
                                    In order to achieve some level of
                                    assurance for this action, the
                                    proposal is to delete the keys from
                                    the HSM 18 months after the <i>notBefore
                                    </i>of the Timestamp Certificate, in
                                    an audited way, witnessed by members
                                    of two different Trusted Roles (not
                                    by two Trusted Role Members, i.e.
                                    you can't use two persons of the
                                    same Trusted Role). <br>
                                    <br>
                                    It's ok to keep the keys in backups
                                    but if you happen to restore them in
                                    an HSM, you must not use them to
                                    sign anything. If a CA/TSA can also
                                    "destroy" the key, meaning that all
                                    copies of that private key can be
                                    unequivocally/securely deleted (i.e.
                                    without a way to recover the key),
                                    including any instance of the key as
                                    part of a backup, the better!<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Thoughts?<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Dimitris.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:11.0pt">On
                                      6/3/2024 2:07 μ.μ., Martijn
                                      Katerbarg via Cscwg-public wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt">All,</span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt">As
                                        discussed last week, I’d send
                                        out the draft language for this
                                        ballot once more before starting
                                        the discussion period.  The
                                        latest version can be found in <a
href="https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/pull/34</a></span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt">I’ve
                                        made changes this morning to add
                                        3 effective dates, these are:</span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                      type="disc">
                                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo1"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">For
                                          the removal of private keys
                                          associated with timestamp
                                          certificates, effective June 1<sup>st</sup>,
                                          2024, CAs will need to
                                          properly log the removal of
                                          said key. </span><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                    </ul>
                                    <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                      type="disc">
                                      <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                        type="circle">
                                        <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2"><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt">While
                                            I expect CAs to already
                                            properly log this for audit
                                            purposes even now, there may
                                            be exceptions for when this
                                            has not been done,  for
                                            example a private key or
                                            timestamp certificate that
                                            was signed maybe 20 years
                                            ago. This language is added
                                            to avoid any confusion on
                                            from what point there needs
                                            to be an audit trail</span><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                      </ul>
                                    </ul>
                                    <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                      type="disc">
                                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">Effective
                                          April 15, 2025, private keys
                                          associated with SubCAs
                                          containing the “Time Stamping”
                                          EKU will need to be placed in
                                          offline HSMs.</span><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                    </ul>
                                    <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                      type="disc">
                                      <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                        type="circle">
                                        <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo4"><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt">I
                                            believe a roughly one year
                                            effective date is
                                            appropriate here, since CAs
                                            may need to move keys from
                                            one HSM to another.</span><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                      </ul>
                                    </ul>
                                    <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                      type="disc">
                                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5"><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt">For
                                          private keys associated with
                                          timestamp certificates that
                                          were issued for greater than
                                          15 months, CAs will need to
                                          remove the private keys 18
                                          months after certificate
                                          issuance, starting April 15,
                                          2025.</span><span
                                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                    </ul>
                                    <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                      type="disc">
                                      <ul style="margin-top:0in"
                                        type="circle">
                                        <li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level2 lfo6"><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt">Likewise,
                                            I feel like anything
                                            involving HSM process
                                            changes, should have a
                                            longer effective date, and
                                            it makes sense to align this
                                            with the effective date
                                            above.</span><span
                                            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                      </ul>
                                    </ul>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt">I’ll
                                        start a ballot on this early
                                        next week, unless there is
                                        concern with the above. </span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards,<br>
                                        <br>
                                        Martijn</span><span
                                        style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                      style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre>Cscwg-public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre><a
href="mailto:Cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                  <pre><a
href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                </blockquote>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span
                                    style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Cscwg-public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Cscwg-public@cabforum.org">Cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>