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    Makes sense. The CWG has the first say in its own Charter.<br>
    <br>
    Thanks,<br>
    Dimitris.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/9/2023 12:11 μ.μ., Martijn
      Katerbarg wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">So while updating the charter really is
            something for the Forum level (ping <a
              id="OWAAMCF6AE7706B5650409B732264C247E4A9"
              href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;text-decoration:none">@Dimitris
                Zacharopoulos (HARICA)</span></a>), I would be inclined
            to say that a first update draft could be floated in the
            CSWG mailing list for feedback. Any objections?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">I’ll start working on a draft update, and
            include changes to the voting structure language as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><br>
            Regards,<br>
            <br>
            Martijn<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
          <div>
            <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">From:
                  </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                  lang="EN-US">Dean Coclin
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dean.coclin@digicert.com"><dean.coclin@digicert.com></a><br>
                  <b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 13 September 2023 at 10:14<br>
                  <b>To: </b>Tim Hollebeek
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"><tim.hollebeek@digicert.com></a>,
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"><cscwg-public@cabforum.org></a>, Martijn Katerbarg
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"><martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com></a>, Bruce Morton
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"><bruce.morton@entrust.com></a><br>
                  <b>Subject: </b>RE: [Cscwg-public] Proposed Signing
                  Service, High Risk and Timestamp Changes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">What “</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">current timestamping BRs” are you referring
                to?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">As I said, timestamping strictly related to
                code signing should be in scope.</span><span
                lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">Dean</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0174C3"
                      lang="EN-US">Dean Coclin </span></b><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#48565E"
                    lang="EN-US">Sr. Director Business Development</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#48565E"
                    lang="EN-US">M 1.781.789.8686</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#48565E"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"><img
                      style="width:1.3437in;height:.3854in"
                      id="Picture_x0020_2"
                      src="cid:part1.GYdZsQcV.Syivsc6U@harica.gr"
                      class="" width="129" height="37" border="0"></span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                    lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                      lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                    style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> Tim Hollebeek
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"><tim.hollebeek@digicert.com></a> <br>
                    <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:27 PM<br>
                    <b>To:</b> Dean Coclin
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dean.coclin@digicert.com"><dean.coclin@digicert.com></a>;
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>; Martijn Katerbarg
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"><martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com></a>; Bruce Morton
                    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"><bruce.morton@entrust.com></a><br>
                    <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Cscwg-public] Proposed Signing
                    Service, High Risk and Timestamp Changes</span><span
                    lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">This is just wrong, and Martijn was trying
                to say the opposite thing anyway: we should update the
                charter to explicitly state that timestamping is in
                scope.  And I agree.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">The reason it can’t be true that
                timestamping is out of scope is because the current
                timestamping BRs have over 75+ references to
                timestamping!</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"><br>
                We’ve always considered timestamping to be in scope,
                because it’s an essential part of a secure code signing
                ecosystem.  </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US">-Tim</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div
style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
              <div>
                <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">
                      Cscwg-public <<a
                        href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Coclin via Cscwg-public<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 5, 2023 10:15 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Martijn Katerbarg <<a
                        href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>;
                      <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>;
                      Bruce Morton <<a
                        href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bruce.morton@entrust.com</a>><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Proposed
                      Signing Service, High Risk and Timestamp Changes</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">As has been pointed out many times, the
                  charter of the CSCWG does not include timestamping.
                  Hence anything related to that beyond Code Signing
                  would require a change to the charter.</span><span
                  lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">Thanks for the point Martijn.</span><span
                  lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"><br>
                  Dean</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#0174C3"
                        lang="EN-US">Dean Coclin </span></b><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#48565E"
                      lang="EN-US">Sr. Director Business Development</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#48565E"
                      lang="EN-US">M 1.781.789.8686</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#48565E"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                      lang="EN-US"><img
                        style="width:1.3437in;height:.3854in"
                        id="Picture_x0020_1"
                        src="cid:part1.GYdZsQcV.Syivsc6U@harica.gr"
                        class="" width="129" height="37" border="0"></span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <div>
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style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                      style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">
                      Cscwg-public <<a
                        href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martijn Katerbarg via
                      Cscwg-public<br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 5, 2023 11:47 AM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> Bruce Morton <<a
                        href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bruce.morton@entrust.com</a>>;
                      <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Proposed
                      Signing Service, High Risk and Timestamp Changes</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">Hey Bruce,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"><br>
                  I’m inclined to say that even the removal of TSC
                  Private Keys, is a new requirement. If we’re not
                  explicitly saying that existing keys up until this
                  point are excluded, then CA’s may need to remove a
                  fair number of keys. If so, we may need to allow for a
                  bit more time.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">That also brings me to another concern
                  that popped up:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">We’re adding more restrictions around
                  timestamp certificates. While these obviously are
                  heavily used for code signing, they’re not used just
                  for that purpose.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">With that in mind, I think at least in
                  the next Forum level meeting, we should make all
                  members aware of the proposed changes, since it will
                  probably impact members that are not a member of the
                  CSWG. Secondly, I’ve started to wonder if we need to
                  get our charter updated to include the scope of
                  timestamping certificates, and possibly allow members
                  that do not issue code signing certificates but that
                  still are a TSA.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="SV">Regards,<br>
                  <br>
                  Martijn</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
                <div>
                  <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">From: </span></b><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                        lang="EN-US">Bruce Morton <<a
                          href="mailto:Bruce.Morton@entrust.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Bruce.Morton@entrust.com</a>><br>
                        <b>Date: </b>Thursday, 31 August 2023 at 17:30<br>
                        <b>To: </b>Martijn Katerbarg <<a
                          href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>,
                        <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>
                        <<a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>><br>
                        <b>Subject: </b>RE: [Cscwg-public] Proposed
                        Signing Service, High Risk and Timestamp Changes</span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Hi
                      Martijn,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Thanks
                      for the Github version!</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">We
                      should discuss which items need a future effective
                      date. I assume the only issue is offline
                      Subordinate CA. I would propose 15 September 2024.
                      I don’t think there should be any impact to TSA
                      certificates, since the private key can only be
                      used for 15-months which is not changing.</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Bruce.</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> Martijn
                          Katerbarg <<a
                            href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>
                          <br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 31, 2023 10:56
                          AM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> Bruce Morton <<a
                            href="mailto:Bruce.Morton@entrust.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Bruce.Morton@entrust.com</a>>;
                          <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: [Cscwg-public]
                          Proposed Signing Service, High Risk and
                          Timestamp Changes</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">As
                      discussed on the last call, I’ve moved the
                      language into GitHub, which can be reviewed at <a
href="https://url.avanan.click/v2/___https:/github.com/cabforum/code-signing/compare/main...XolphinMartijn:code-signing:TSA_Changes?expand=1___.YXAzOmRpZ2ljZXJ0OmE6bzo0ZGY3NmNlYWMzMDA4N2ZkOWU0OWFjZmUwNzAxMWY3MTo2OjczZDc6N2JlZWYyZWRjNTU1ZTZmYmIxODIyMDZhNmU5NDY2YTY3ZTU2OTA2OWVhNDQ3YmNlNzVlZGQwY2U4MjdkYmJmMDpoOkY"
title="Protected by Avanan: https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/compare/main...XolphinMartijn:code-signing:TSA_Changes?expand=1"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/cabforum/code-signing/compare/main...XolphinMartijn:code-signing:TSA_Changes?expand=1</a></span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">In
                      this, I’ve also added text on logging key removal
                      and how to handle key recovery scenarios</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">It
                      occurs to me that we’re missing two details on
                      this item:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                      style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">What
                        kind of effective date are we looking to attach
                        to this</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                    <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                      style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">What
                        will apply to SubCAs and Timestamp Certificates
                        that have already been issued. </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                  </ol>
                  <ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="2">
                    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                        style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l2 level2 lfo3"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">If
                          we want the same logic to be applied, do we
                          want to maybe give additional time for
                          existing setups?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                    </ol>
                  </ol>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Thoughts?</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
                      <br>
                      Martijn</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> Bruce
                          Morton <<a
                            href="mailto:Bruce.Morton@entrust.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Bruce.Morton@entrust.com</a>>
                          <br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 16 August 2023 20:00<br>
                          <b>To:</b> Martijn Katerbarg <<a
                            href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>;
                          <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> RE: [Cscwg-public] Proposed
                          Signing Service, High Risk and Timestamp
                          Changes</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Agreed
                      with the change proposal.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Thanks,
                      Bruce.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> Martijn
                          Katerbarg <<a
                            href="mailto:martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martijn.katerbarg@sectigo.com</a>>
                          <br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 10, 2023 3:54 PM<br>
                          <b>To:</b> Bruce Morton <<a
                            href="mailto:Bruce.Morton@entrust.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Bruce.Morton@entrust.com</a>>;
                          <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: [Cscwg-public]
                          Proposed Signing Service, High Risk and
                          Timestamp Changes</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Thanks
                      Bruce,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">I’m
                      going through the TSA changes, and one thing
                      caught my eye:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Section
                      6.2.7.2 now reads:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">A
                        Timestamp Authority MUST protect its Private Key
                        in offline Hardware Crypto Module conforming to
                        FIPS 140-2 level 3, Common Criteria EAL 4+
                        (ALC_FLR.2), or higher. The Timestamp Authority
                        MUST protect its signing operations in
                        accordance with the CA/Browser Forum's Network
                        and Certificate System Security Requirements.</span></i><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">The
                      definition of “Timestamp Authority” (TSA) reads:</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">A
                        service operated by the CA or a delegated third
                        party for its own code signing certificate users
                        that timestamps data using a certificate chained
                        to a public root, thereby asserting that the
                        data (or the data from which the data were
                        derived via a secure hashing algorithm) existed
                        at the specified time.</span></i><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span></i><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">It
                      seems to me that this change would imply that a
                      TSA needs to keep all their private keys in
                      offline HCMs, including private keys associated
                      with timestamp certificates. I presume this
                      language is intended to only apply to the private
                      key associated with the TSA Root CA (and even the
                      Subordinate CAs, as far as I understood during
                      todays call) , but not to the private key
                      associated with the Timestamp Certificate itself.
                    </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Might
                      I suggest updating this language to:</span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">A
                        Timestamp Authority MUST protect Private Keys
                        associated with its Root CA and Subordinate CA
                        certificates in offline Hardware Crypto Module
                        conforming to FIPS 140-2 level 3, Common
                        Criteria EAL 4+ (ALC_FLR.2), or higher. The
                        Timestamp Authority MUST protect its signing
                        operations in accordance with the CA/Browser
                        Forum's Network and Certificate System Security
                        Requirements.</span></i><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Regards,<br>
                      <br>
                      Martijn</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div
style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">
                          Cscwg-public <<a
href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Morton via
                          Cscwg-public<br>
                          <b>Sent:</b> Friday, 21 July 2023 17:55<br>
                          <b>To:</b> <a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                          <b>Subject:</b> [Cscwg-public] Proposed
                          Signing Service, High Risk and Timestamp
                          Changes</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                      lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div
style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                      style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
                        style="color:black" lang="EN-US">CAUTION: This
                        email originated from outside of the
                        organization. Do not click links or open
                        attachments unless you recognize the sender and
                        know the content is safe.</span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Based
                        on the discussions we had at the June F2F, I
                        have taken the opportunity to propose markups to
                        derive Signing Service, High Risk and
                        Timestamping ballots.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">The
                        base text is from the CSC-19 version of the
                        CSBRs. There may be some conflicting markups or
                        markups.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                        style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo7"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Signing
                          Service – based on the former proposal, plus
                          updates based on the discussions</span><span
                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                        style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo7"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">High
                          Risk – Removal of high risk and takeover
                          attack, plus removed Subscriber key generation
                          methods prior to 1 June 2023 and the text
                          about delivering a software based private key.
                          Also propose removing the “any other method”
                          text.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                      <li class="MsoListParagraph"
                        style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo7"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Timestamping
                          – Maintain allowing 15 month private key usage
                          period and 135 month validity period, but
                          requiring private keys to be destroyed within
                          18 months if the timestamp certificate was
                          valid for more than 15 months. Stating that
                          the HSM supporting the Time-stamp CA must be
                          offline. Stating that the TSA must reject
                          SHA-1 signed timestamp requests</span><span
                          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                    </ol>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Hoping
                        this will help to clean up this text which we
                        have been discussing for a period of time. These
                        items are on the agenda for next week's meeting.</span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual" lang="EN-US">Thanks,
                        Bruce.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Any
                          email and files/attachments transmitted with
                          it are intended solely for the use of the
                          individual or entity to whom they are
                          addressed. If this message has been sent to
                          you in error, you must not copy, distribute or
                          disclose of the information it contains. <u>Please
                            notify Entrust immediately and delete the
                            message from your system.</u></span></i><span
                        style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
                        lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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    </blockquote>
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