<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    It's best if we add the subscriber warranties and expectations in
    one place but my point was that we already expect things from
    Certificate Subscribers. It's not a new thing, as you presented it.<br>
    <br>
    Dimitris.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/3/2022 6:03 μ.μ., Inigo Barreira
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DM6PR17MB3116F7BA725D5962C3539A29810A9@DM6PR17MB3116.namprd17.prod.outlook.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
        medium)">
      <!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
      <style>@font-face
        {font-family:"MS Gothic";
        panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:"Cambria Math";
        panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Calibri;
        panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:Consolas;
        panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:"\@MS Gothic";
        panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}@font-face
        {font-family:"MS PGothic \,sans-serif";
        panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
        {margin:0cm;
        font-size:11.0pt;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        mso-fareast-language:JA;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        color:#0563C1;
        text-decoration:underline;}pre
        {mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"HTML con formato previo Car";
        margin:0cm;
        font-size:12.0pt;
        font-family:"MS Gothic";
        mso-fareast-language:JA;}span.HTMLconformatoprevioCar
        {mso-style-name:"HTML con formato previo Car";
        mso-style-priority:99;
        mso-style-link:"HTML con formato previo";
        font-family:Consolas;
        mso-fareast-language:JA;}span.hvr
        {mso-style-name:hvr;}span.EstiloCorreo22
        {mso-style-type:personal-reply;
        font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
        color:windowtext;}.MsoChpDefault
        {mso-style-type:export-only;
        font-size:10.0pt;}div.WordSection1
        {page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB">Nope. In section 7.2 (which is for certificate
            warranties) there´s no clear indication on this unless you
            consider 1) compliance and 6) key protection enough. Section
            7.3 says nothing about this. Further, there´s no definition
            of “representation” in section 4 and hence my question
            because I was thinking on a different matter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                  style="mso-fareast-language:ES">De:</span></b><span
                style="mso-fareast-language:ES"> Dimitris Zacharopoulos
                (HARICA) <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dzacharo@harica.gr"><dzacharo@harica.gr></a> <br>
                <b>Enviado el:</b> miércoles, 9 de marzo de 2022 14:08<br>
                <b>Para:</b> Inigo Barreira
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com"><Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com></a>;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>; Adriano Santoni
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it"><adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it></a><br>
                <b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Update to Subscriber
                Private Key Protection Requirements (CSC-6 to CSC-13)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt
          2.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"
            style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">CAUTION: This email
              originated from outside of the organization. Do not click
              links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender
              and know the content is safe.</span><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:ES"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 9/3/2022 2:58 μ.μ., Inigo Barreira
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">I agree
                with Adriano. Point 1 does not make customer accountable
                for anything (I will promise I´m a good guy) and then
                point 2 is useless because with point 1 you´re allowing
                the customer to do whatever, independently if they use a
                hardw device or not. The CSRs can be generated in a
                crypto device or not and with point 1 you, as the CA,
                are “sure” that the keys are in a hardware crypto
                device. That´s a lot to assume.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ES"><br>
              You are missing the point of Subscriber representations
              and warranties which is clearly included in the BRs.
              Subscribers have obligations as well and we must ensure
              they are aware and bound to those obligations.<br>
              <br>
              Dimitris.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <div>
              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b>De:</b> Cscwg-public <a
                    href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org></a>
                  <b>En nombre de </b>Dimitris Zacharopoulos (HARICA)
                  via Cscwg-public<br>
                  <b>Enviado el:</b> miércoles, 9 de marzo de 2022 13:27<br>
                  <b>Para:</b> Adriano Santoni <a
                    href="mailto:adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><adriano.santoni@staff.aruba.it></a>;
                  <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                  <b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Update to Subscriber
                  Private Key Protection Requirements (CSC-6 to CSC-13)<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt 2.0pt
              2.0pt 2.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"
                style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">CAUTION: This
                  email originated from outside of the organization. Do
                  not click links or open attachments unless you
                  recognize the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic
                ,sans-serif",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
                believe this language and double confirmation comes from
                years ago when tools like remote key attestation were
                not available.<br>
                <br>
                If we are to allow an Applicant to generate keys
                remotely (i.e. without the presence of a CA
                representative and without hardware that supports remote
                key attestation), which seems to be the case with the
                CSCWG today, we need to rely on policy to accomplish
                that. It is reasonable to hold both sides, the Applicant
                and the CA, accountable to this policy. See below.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On 9/3/2022 11:43 π.μ., Adriano
                  Santoni via Cscwg-public wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p>As far as I'm concerned, I find confusing and overly
                  complex the double requirement:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>1) customer must make a "representation" that they
                  will use a hardware crypto module (or signing
                  service), and ...<o:p></o:p></p>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                This is required because a customer could potentially
                "fake" the hardware device id and create a virtual
                driver that emulates the actual hardware device. The
                Applicant must be held accountable if they try to
                manipulate the process or make any changes to the
                process and tools provided by the CA.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p>2) the CA must ensure that the customer will really
                  use a hardware crypto module (or signing service). <o:p></o:p></p>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                The CA must establish a process and develop the proper
                tools to provide reasonable assurance that the Applicant
                remotely generates keys in a hardware crypto module
                which is usually within a limited set of devices
                approved by the CA. The CA is not allowed to say "please
                send me a CSR and pinky swear that it was generated in a
                crypto device". They must develop tools and middleware
                and establish a process to make sure the key is
                generated in approved crypto-devices only.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p>If the CA will be obliged to meet req #2, then I do
                  not see what use is req #1.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                Hope this explanation helps.<br>
                Dimitris.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></p>
              <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                <p>Adriano<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p>-- Actalis<o:p></o:p></p>
                <p> <o:p></o:p></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">Il 09/03/2022 10:21, Inigo
                    Barreira via Cscwg-public ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Yes,
                      please. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">It
                      looks like this representation means something
                      like “click here if you are over 18” or “click
                      here if you agree” because these are also facts
                      not opinions. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">IMO
                      the message here is that CAs will rely in whatever
                      the subscriber says, e.g.,  “yes, I´m a good guy
                      and promise that I will keep my keys in a hardware
                      device …” rather on making the corresponding tasks
                      to ensure. Is this the right approach? This is
                      what I understand from Dean´s response because CAs
                      are not attesting anything just relying in a form
                      signed by the subscriber in where it may say
                      whatever.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                      1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b>De:</b> Tim Hollebeek <a
                          href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><tim.hollebeek@digicert.com></a>
                        <br>
                        <b>Enviado el:</b> martes, 8 de marzo de 2022
                        20:35<br>
                        <b>Para:</b> Dean Coclin <a
                          href="mailto:dean.coclin@digicert.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><dean.coclin@digicert.com></a>;
                        Inigo Barreira <a
                          href="mailto:Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com></a>;
                        <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a>;
                        Bruce Morton <a
                          href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><bruce.morton@entrust.com></a>;
                        Doug Beattie <a
                          href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><doug.beattie@globalsign.com></a>;
                        Ian McMillan <a
                          href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"><ianmcm@microsoft.com></a><br>
                        <b>Asunto:</b> RE: Update to Subscriber Private
                        Key Protection Requirements (CSC-6 to CSC-13)<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">“representation”
                      is being used here in the legal sense: “</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#404040;background:white"
                      lang="EN-US">a <span class="hvr">statement</span> of <span
                        class="hvr">fact.</span> A <span class="hvr">representation</span> <span
                        class="hvr">should</span> be <span class="hvr">distinguished</span> <span
                        class="hvr">from</span> a <span class="hvr">statement</span> of <span
                        class="hvr">opinion</span> <span class="hvr">for</span> <span
                        class="hvr">many</span> <span class="hvr">legal</span> <span
                        class="hvr">purposes,</span> <span class="hvr">especially</span> in <span
                        class="hvr">relation</span> to <span class="hvr">contractual</span> <span
                        class="hvr">obligations.</span></span><span
                      lang="EN-US">”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We should
                      perhaps be using plain English instead of
                      legalese.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-Tim</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                    1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                            lang="EN-US"> Dean Coclin <</span><a
                            href="mailto:dean.coclin@digicert.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">dean.coclin@digicert.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">> <br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 8, 2022 1:00 PM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> Inigo Barreira <</span><a
                            href="mailto:Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">Inigo.Barreira@sectigo.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; </span><a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">; Bruce Morton <</span><a
                            href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">bruce.morton@entrust.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; Doug Beattie <</span><a
                            href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; Ian McMillan <</span><a
                            href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">ianmcm@microsoft.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; Tim Hollebeek <</span><a
                            href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> RE: Update to Subscriber
                            Private Key Protection Requirements (CSC-6
                            to CSC-13)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US">This means exactly what it says,
                        some representation that the subscriber makes to
                        honor the condition. This traditionally has been
                        something in writing that the subscriber signs
                        and submits to the CA. CAs can provide a form to
                        the subscriber which they attest to.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                        lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                            lang="EN-US"> Cscwg-public <</span><a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Inigo
                            Barreira via Cscwg-public<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 8, 2022 11:03 AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b> Bruce Morton <</span><a
                            href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">bruce.morton@entrust.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; </span><a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">; Doug Beattie <</span><a
                            href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; Ian McMillan <</span><a
                            href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">ianmcm@microsoft.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">>; Tim Hollebeek <</span><a
                            href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Update to
                            Subscriber Private Key Protection
                            Requirements (CSC-6 to CSC-13)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Reviewing
                        the section 16.3.1 I have a “wording” question.
                        What does it mean that “The CA MUST obtain a
                        representation from the Subscriber that the
                        Subscriber will use one of the following options
                        …”. So, what is a “representation from the
                        subscriber”?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b>De:</b> Cscwg-public
                          <<a
                            href="mailto:cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public-bounces@cabforum.org</a>>
                          <b>En nombre de </b>Bruce Morton via
                          Cscwg-public<br>
                          <b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 3 de marzo de 2022
                          15:08<br>
                          <b>Para:</b> Doug Beattie <<a
                            href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</a>>;
                          Ian McMillan <<a
                            href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">ianmcm@microsoft.com</a>>;
                          Tim Hollebeek <<a
                            href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</a>>;
                          <a href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><br>
                          <b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Cscwg-public] Update to
                          Subscriber Private Key Protection Requirements
                          (CSC-6 to CSC-13)<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div style="border:solid black 1.0pt;padding:2.0pt
                      2.0pt 2.0pt 2.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="line-height:12.0pt;background:#FAFA03"><span
                          style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">CAUTION: This email originated
                          from outside of the organization. Do not click
                          links or open attachments unless you recognize
                          the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Doug,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regarding
                          the 16.2 section, this statement was also
                          struck-out, “After 2021-06-01, the same
                          protection requirements SHALL apply to Non EV
                          Code Signing Certificates.” So I believe that
                          the requirement already applied to normal code
                          signing certificates. The edits are just a
                          cleanup.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Bruce.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                              lang="EN-US"> Doug Beattie <</span><a
                              href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">> <br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 3, 2022 6:56
                              AM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Ian McMillan <</span><a
                              href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">ianmcm@microsoft.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">>; Tim Hollebeek <</span><a
                              href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">>; </span><a
                              href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">; Bruce Morton <</span><a
                              href="mailto:Bruce.Morton@entrust.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">Bruce.Morton@entrust.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: Update to
                              Subscriber Private Key Protection
                              Requirements (CSC-6 to CSC-13)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">WARNING:
                          This email originated outside of Entrust.<br>
                          DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you
                          trust the sender and know the content is safe.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
                        align="center"><span lang="EN-US">
                          <hr width="100%" size="1" align="center"></span></div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi Ian,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Good work
                          on section 16.3, that is much more clear now. 
                          I have 2 more comments for your consideration.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Comment
                          #1:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In Section
                          11.7 we say:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
                          lang="EN-US">If the CA is aware that the
                          Applicant was the victim of a Takeover Attack,
                          the CA MUST verify that the Applicant is
                          protecting its Code Signing Private Keys under
                          Section 16.3.1(1) or Section 16.3.1(2). The CA
                          MUST verify the Applicant’s compliance with
                          Section 16.3.1(1) or Section 16.3.1(2) (i)
                          through technical means that confirm the
                          Private Keys are protected using the method
                          described in 16.3.1(1) or 16.3.1(2) or (ii) by
                          relying on a report provided by the Applicant
                          that is signed by an auditor who is approved
                          by the CA and who has IT and security training
                          or is a CISA.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">But now
                          there are actually 2 lists in sections
                          16.3.1(1) or Section 16.3.1(2) with those list
                          numbers.  Do we need to be more specific, or
                          renumber the second list a-c?  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">After 15
                          November, what is the right remediation for
                          Take Over attack, do we need to reference one
                          or more of the items in the new list (the list
                          we might renumber a-c), or is there no
                          remediation now?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">There are
                          multiple references to 16.3.1(1) so we’d want
                          to apply the same logic to all instances.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Comment
                          #2:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Section
                          16.2 removed the reference to EV in the scope
                          so this applies to normal Code signing
                          certificates.  Since this does not have a date
                          associated with it, do we assume that this
                          requirement change for normal code signing
                          certs is effective immediately?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                              lang="EN-US"> Ian McMillan <</span><a
                              href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">ianmcm@microsoft.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">> <br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022 5:56
                              PM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Tim Hollebeek <</span><a
                              href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">>; </span><a
                              href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">; Doug Beattie <</span><a
                              href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">>; Bruce Morton <</span><a
                              href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">bruce.morton@entrust.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> RE: Update to Subscriber
                              Private Key Protection Requirements (CSC-6
                              to CSC-13)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thank you,
                          Tim, I really like the structure suggestions
                          here. I’ve made those updates per your
                          suggestion in the attached copy of the redline
                          document. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I’ll note
                          your endorsement.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                              lang="EN-US"> Tim Hollebeek <</span><a
                              href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">> <br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022 4:57
                              PM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> Ian McMillan <</span><a
                              href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">ianmcm@microsoft.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">>; </span><a
                              href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">; Doug Beattie <</span><a
                              href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">>; Bruce Morton <</span><a
                              href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">bruce.morton@entrust.com</span></a><span
                              lang="EN-US">><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] RE: Update to
                              Subscriber Private Key Protection
                              Requirements (CSC-6 to CSC-13)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I would
                          recommend against using parentheticals to
                          express the deprecation dates, as it makes the
                          sentences more complicated than they need to
                          be.  I’d just modify the first sentence of
                          each part so the structure is as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">   For
                          Non-EV Code Signing Certificates issued prior
                          to November 15, 2022, …</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">   For EV
                          Code Signing Certificates issued prior to
                          November 15, 2022, …</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">  
                          Effective November 15, 2022, …</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">But
                          otherwise, the updates look good and we are
                          willing to endorse CSC-13.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-Tim</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
                        1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid
                            #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
                                lang="EN-US"> Ian McMillan <</span><a
                                href="mailto:ianmcm@microsoft.com"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">ianmcm@microsoft.com</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US">> <br>
                                <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 2, 2022
                                11:31 AM<br>
                                <b>To:</b> </span><a
                                href="mailto:cscwg-public@cabforum.org"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">cscwg-public@cabforum.org</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US">; Doug Beattie <</span><a
href="mailto:doug.beattie@globalsign.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">doug.beattie@globalsign.com</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US">>; Bruce Morton <</span><a
                                href="mailto:bruce.morton@entrust.com"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">bruce.morton@entrust.com</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US">>; Tim Hollebeek <</span><a
                                href="mailto:tim.hollebeek@digicert.com"
                                moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                  lang="EN-US">tim.hollebeek@digicert.com</span></a><span
                                lang="EN-US">><br>
                                <b>Subject:</b> Update to Subscriber
                                Private Key Protection Requirements
                                (CSC-6 to CSC-13)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi
                            Folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Attached
                            you will find an updated redline doc of v2.7
                            of the CSBRs with the updates to the
                            subscriber private key protection
                            requirements as outlined previously in
                            CSC-6. This updated version also includes
                            edits to address issues Doug Beattie raised
                            during the voting period of CSC-6, so I am
                            looking for confirmation from Doug on these
                            edits addressing the concerns he raised. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Additionally,
                            I’m looking to get endorsements on this
                            ballot under </span><a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.cabforum.org%2Fcscwg%2Fcsc_13_-_update_to_subscriber_private_key_protection_requirements&data=04%7C01%7CInigo.Barreira%40sectigo.com%7Cd546bfa279f44594c2ce08da01cde35f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C637824281051972448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DWMHXOAyED1RmBGi1ruL0D7tq1oYE%2BpyGeKGwcKeZ18%3D&reserved=0"
title="cscwg:csc_13_-_update_to_subscriber_private_key_protection_requirements"
                            moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">CSC
                              13 - Update to Subscriber Private Key
                              Protection Requirements</span></a><span
                            lang="EN-US">, and hope that Bruce and Tim,
                            as previous endorsers can review the edits
                            and endorse the new ballot. Once we have
                            endorsers I’ll proceed with the formal
                            ballot process. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ian </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS
                      PGothic ,sans-serif",serif"><br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre>Cscwg-public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre><a href="mailto:Cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                  <pre><a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.cabforum.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcscwg-public&data=04%7C01%7CInigo.Barreira%40sectigo.com%7Cd546bfa279f44594c2ce08da01cde35f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C637824281051972448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=x8BFJ2B9IL%2FVc9B5TidmtN8KCeJ8bqVTz6FoaCwfPZI%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                </blockquote>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic
                    ,sans-serif",serif"><br>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre>Cscwg-public mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><a href="mailto:Cscwg-public@cabforum.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Cscwg-public@cabforum.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                <pre><a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.cabforum.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcscwg-public&data=04%7C01%7CInigo.Barreira%40sectigo.com%7Cd546bfa279f44594c2ce08da01cde35f%7C0e9c48946caa465d96604b6968b49fb7%7C0%7C0%7C637824281051972448%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=x8BFJ2B9IL%2FVc9B5TidmtN8KCeJ8bqVTz6FoaCwfPZI%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.cabforum.org/mailman/listinfo/cscwg-public</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              </blockquote>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS PGothic
                  ,sans-serif",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ES"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>